Update: 15:00 For those that have been asking, no, this is not one of the sources that has previously mentioned anything on Episode 4.04 to date and has been very careful about revealing spoilers. This source has been my best source for the past 2 Seasons.
As you all know there has been a massive amount of debate about Episode 4.04 - Eggtown on the various Internet boards and forums. There are some people out there who have been posting information on this episode which can be interpreted in a number of ways. They are a mixture of truth mixed in with foilers and misunderstandings of the information.
Below I've copied an email that one of my best sources and a good friend,who has seen this episode, has sent through and has permitted me to pass on. Please do not email me asking for more information as personally I don't have any. When the information is available we will post it here. We are trying our best to avoid another LostFan108 debacle.
"I don't think this episode should be ruined or spoiled, it needs to be seen, especially to be believed, and so viewers can see added nuances to the storyline. Giving away little bits and pieces, truths and half truths is not really fair.
Yes things don't end well for Jack and Kate in the ff portion. But we knew they weren't well for the two of them as a couple or as individuals at the end of through the looking glass.
But what is critical about the ff is Kates attitude, who Kate has transformed into as a person, and the dialogue in these scenes. Kate may have a kid. The paternity might be revealed in the end. Jack might tell Kate he loves her. Kate might slap Sawyer in the face. I might be lying. You wont know until you see the show. Enough said.
Stop begging for spoilers. Stop trying to spread the information around on the Internet. If you keep digging around one of the best episodes Lost has ever created will be ruined for you. I understand some people want that. But those posts usually happened the day before the episode airs.
One reason I like Andy (DarkUFO) and have used him to dish out spoilers for multiple seasons now is the way he has respect for the casual viewer and withholds some information. Stop giving him a bad time. Stop emailing him only about Sawyer/Kate/Jack "shipper" issues.
Be a fan of the whole show, not just who ends up with who. You'll find out in almost two months and it will not disappoint you."
Episode 4.04 - A note from my source
(Comments: 132)
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132 Comments:
poor shippers have to wait...haha...
thanks for the update mate.... :)
Thank you Dark, and thank you Dark's source. If it is that good, I guess it will be worth it to remain spoiler free for this episode from now on. :)
LEAVE BRITNEY.... errr...ANDY ALONE!
:)
Keep up the good work DarkUFO!
That clears things up! ;)
But seriously, this sounds like one amazing episode! I'm sure not everyone will be pleased with particular parts of it, but on the whole, it's going to be great.
thanks for the info dark.
This sounds like an amazing episode. =)
thx Dark...you are best :-)))))
hehe,thanks Dark,it really sounds like a mindblowing episode! just wait,watch and see right?
Am I the only one who isn't all that amazed by this supposed twist? Well, I've never been a fan of the Kate/Jack/Sawyer thing.
The source really shouldnt complain about shippers getting a little twitchy after comments like these
kate - had one of the best endings ive seen. sawyer and kate (skaters? is that right?) fans will not be happy!Info after the >>>>> you cannot post yet until i give you the goahead"
Source 2 on Episode 4
"And the end is so fucking good oh my God!!! If your wife or girlfriend watches this show it will be her favorite episode. This one is one for the shipper legends!"
Sorry but you got us speculatin Dark :-)
@wftsignmeup: ITA!!
ok. I'll stop thinking about my Jate shower scene. I promise :)
"Be a fan of the whole show, not just who ends up with who."
AMEN TO THAT!!!
This shipper spoilers are really getting on my nerves - or better say the people who wanna debate this spoilers to death. I'm a Jater but I LOVE the story of the whole show as much as I love my ship. It's really sad to see that some of you have forgotten what LOST is really about. It's not like, I don't know, Grey's Anatomy for example, where everything is about people making out with other people.
So these are my 50 cents added to this topic. :)
thanks dark! this episode sounds so good! i cant wait to see it :)
@elisabetta: that was hialrious LOL
i agreed freakchiq, i'm a jater but i'm also a fan of the show! but sometimes when you read a comment that's insulting your ship, you cant help it and respond!
but i promise dark we're not gonna give you a bad time anymore :)
but i promise dark we're not gonna give you a bad time anymore :)
LOL No worries. I just hope that someone does not fully spoil this episode as it sounds like a good'un!
andy thank for all things you did for us as always :)
we need to wait and i can deal with it 'cause lost return is in 24 days guys !
Is this the same source who gave one of the teases posted below? Then what a hypocrite. The sources started the mess by flaunting their access and handing out a few crumbs. Don't blame people for wanting more once you've opened the spigot. And please don't tell us how to be fans of the show.
@dark: you're right! i didnt want to spoil like i did in TTLG...somethings should stay as a secret :)))
@frizzielizzie: i think this is dark's source not the guy from the fuse...
Out of all 8 episodes, the sources decided to give their opinions about the Kate-centric, an episode that is, as they say, better left completely unspoiled?!
Why didn't they chose another one, for example episode 5 since there aren't that many spoilers about it anyway?
They mosty talked about the shippers' issues (Skaters will be unhappy, one for the shippers legends, emotional scenes, wives and girlfriends' favourite ep...) but want the fans, the shippers in particular, to concentrate on the show as a whole?
What exactly was the point of giving out those "spoilers" or reviews in the first place?
Dark might have slapped the shippers in the face...
You shippers need to chill the f out. Nobody is telling you how to be a fan frizzielizzie. Luthien - you CAN not respond - its called being mature. You realize you are feeling the need to respond over an internet message board regarding fictional love between fictional characters? And further that nothing you say or do will change what has been written/filmed for season 4? elisabetta - OK I'd be into that, not because I'm obsessed with two characters getting together, but because that would be hot. And wtfsignmeup - the source can get twitchy if he/she/it wants to. We probably would have gotten more if the shippers hadn't been so greedy, or loose-lipped, or immature, or just downright insane/crazy.
It's one aspect of the show, just like who ended up with who was one aspect of Harry Potter that maybe took up 20 pages in the 750 page final book. You can want two people to get together, but its ridiculous to be obsessed with it. I've seen "discussions" between shippers get pretty heated. Again, fictional love between two fictional characters. It's fun to discuss the nuances of the show... but will it really affect your life that much if kate ends up with jack or sawyer?
PS - I now think the "he" at the end of TTLG is Kate's parole officer.
But I don't like some comments here that seem to try to discredit one ship or another. It's not fair people. Try to be nice and to not throw phrases like "Jate is dead" or "Skate is dead". We have three more seasons to go, and every ship will get their goods. No need to be mean.
Very well said Lena.
Luthien - you CAN not respond - its called being mature. You realize you are feeling the need to respond over an internet message board regarding fictional love between fictional characters? And further that nothing you say or do will change what has been written/filmed for season 4?
....
such a smart post!
well thats why i said "i cant help it!"
of course i'm aware that this is a fictinal show and a fictional couple but when you get deeply invested in the characters and their relationships, sometimes you just cant help it!
its more like defending your opinions on the characters than pretending its a real couple AND a real story!
dont worry we are not as dumb as you think!
O! Sorry , Dark, I deleted the post you quoted. I thought it refers to the rumours section more, because actually, when I overlooked the comments on this particular thread, I found them pretty civilized.
But I'm curious how did you manage to quote me anyway, as I deleted my post very quickly ;)
You seem to have some supernatural powers ;)
Still, I'm flattered))))
You seem to have some supernatural powers ;)
LOL Lena indeed I do ;)
No, I actually get a copy of all comments posted and didn't realize you had deleted it. No problem, I still think its a great post.
Luthien - "its more like defending your opinions on the characters than pretending its a real couple AND a real story!"
Again, its called being mature. I never called anyone stupid. In fact, many of the "shippers" have good theorys. But why do "shippers" feel the need to "defend" their opinions? I feel the need to express my opinions, but I certainly don't feel like I need to "defend" them. If someone doesn't like my opinion, or doesn't think I'm right, I can state my differences and move on. I don't have to defend them. I would say that vastly holds true for non-shippers, yet many shippers (and I'm trying not to over-generalize here) feel the "I have to be right, [insert other ship here] can't be" or "the world will end if [insert ship here] doesn't happen." So it becomes less the give and take / sharing of opinions I think this site encourages, and more of the lunacy of clinging to a belief without listening to others which often evolves into a childish debate. I'm not saying all shippers are lunatics, but I have witnessed many more childish arguments about who kate ends up with than what the smoke monster is or what the island is. It seems to me that the shippers as a whole (again trying not to over-generalize, so sorry if you are clumped in that) tolerate others opinions less and generally have arguments more than discussions. So I can understand Dark's and the source's annoyances at the shippers.
I think the site has been remarkably civil compared to how it was 6 months ago, when world war III used to erupt in every comments thread (even if the ostensible comments subject was as banal as Michael Emmerson's shoe size). Hats off to all of you.
Hey Andy,
I really appreciate the fact that you like to share with us whatever you can whenever your sources let you, but maybe in the future you should consider finding a different section (like reviews) to post all of the emotionally biased teasers that seem to lack any real substance. It isn't really fair to post your source's predictions about how shippers and women will feel about an episode and then turn around and let those same sources scold the shippers and women for questioning how they came to those conclusions in the first place. It's baiting. And it really creates an enviroment that is ripe for hostile feelings.
If the shipper's perspectives are welcomed at this site please let us know. I know many shippers who enjoying coming here, myself included, but I am sure that none us would want to over stay our welcome.
No, I actually get a copy of all comments posted and didn't realize you had deleted it. No problem, I still think its a great post.
Oh, I see)))
Now I will be particularly careful not to post anything stupid)))
P.S. You are super nice. Another one of your supernatural gualities;)
I for one believe that the show IS more than just Jate or Spate or Oompa Loompas or whatever or Skate, whatever the hell you guys are calling in BUT I HATE HATE HATE it when people who have spoilers and give niblets out come back and say that we, as fans, are ruining things by reading them and asking about them. Screw you and the horse you rode in on, you started it. And I don't think the Lostfan108 thing was a "debacle" myself either, I LOVED knowing all that we go because it doesn't ruin things for me. If it does for others, here's a bright idea......don't come to an area of a website with the word "spoiler" in it. And for anyone saying that it was spread all over the place and ruined it for those that didn't want it; why should we be faulted for the actions of some immature jagal who does things like that?
Anyways, Dark, you are the bomb and I like the way you do things.
"shippers perspective" - oxymoron of the year.
:D
its ok for you to think that way but you shouldnt be saying talking about ships/couples is immature!
it can be fun sometimes and sometimes frustrating but when you say, i have to stop talking about couples coz thats what mature ppl do, than i feel like i'm being accused of being immature!
i can understand that for nonshippers its tiring to read all shipper comments since you have no interest to read what shippers say but couples and their relationships are part of this show just like the four toed statue is! so it should be ok to talk about couples...
you're right on something tho, we shouldnt be fighting with eachother since fighting wont change anything but when i read a comment like this:
"jack and kate have no chemistry...they're boring and ppl who like them are delusional... jack and kate will never get together! they are not a couple and never will be! deal with it"
i cant help but respond!
but maybe you're just right, it would be better not to respond!
also being a shipper doesnt mean i dont care about the four toed statue or what black smoke is or what jacob is or where and what is the island, how desmond can see visions, how could jacob healed Locke, who are the ppl on the freighter, who are the others, why richard doesnt aged...
its just, for me, jack and kate's relationship is as important as the others!
I just want to hear more about other characters though, it's nothing against those that like "shippers" or whatever you call it. What's going on with Sayid? What's going on with Claire and Aaron? Those things are just as important and if it's going to be all about Kate and Jack and Sawyer and such, then change the title to that.
This is so sad a great show like lost and all some people care about is who ends up with who? theres a billion and one shows just about that nonsense who cares!
@matt - PS - I now think the "he" at the end of TTLG is Kate's parole officer.
I hope it's more of a surprise than that.
lo people even have names shipper,so sad she's a double crosser anyway she fell in love with jack now sawyer and in six months some other guy we never even heard of, the circle of madness continues she would'nt like either if they bacame disfigured
Are you serious? First you are not anyone to say to us what we shoudl do about spoilers. You are not anyone to say to us that we should wait to the actual episode to air, I'm a person who always read spoilers and I'm sure damn gald to do that , I never regret anything. Always enjoyed the episodes anyway. Spoilers are for people who want to know, so you can well put a spoiler tag and people will decide if read it or not.
If you cant spill anythign I understand and respect it, but if you dont wanna share because you think WE SHOULD wait for the actual episode then it's another thing. 'Cause it my call not yours.
And please stop it with this whole " enjoy the show , not just who end ug with who" again you dont have any rights to say what people should enjoy or not. You care about the island mysteries and stuff, fine that's good for you . Others people cares more about relationship and they dont deserve to be mocked because of this or even get snarky comments like yours. Everyone has an opinion, you have yours just please dont make'em sound like it's the right one.
OK, one of Dark's sources posted something that was, if not false, then blatantly misleading. He/she said "the ending is so f-ing good...Skaters will not be happy." This is what initially created the furor. Now it looks more and more (see rumors section) like the ending will have nothing to do with ship stuff.Yet this person took an opening to mock and bash Skaters, showing extreme bias and creating a false impression. I sure hope this isn't the great source who is now lecturing other fans on what they should enjoy about the show. This really is a first, a spoiler board that insults the people it's trying to attract. Or lets other fans do it.
Stop trying to spread the information around on the Internet.
Is this person serious? It's a joke, right? This is one of the sources who leaked the information out to the world wide web in the first place. This is either insanity or hypocrisy in its purest form.
I'm not entirely sure why everyone is knee-jerkingly jumping to the conclusion that the person who recently posted "Be a fan of the whole show, not just who ends up with who" is the same source who posted "Skaters will not be happy." Nothing Dark or the source says indicates that at all.
I find it supremely ironic, bearing in mind the subject, that this comment thread is the only one in recent days to have descended into a slagging match.
Matt, might I encourage you to stop being a tree hugging hippee and just join shipper wars like a real man? jk :D
Sure some of these female shippers can get emotional and involved in it, but hey just let it happen. Nothing you say will temper their passion on the subject.
It's not the fictional characters themselves that evokes the emotional response, it's what the relationships represent that evokes the response.
I'd also check this infatuation you non-shippers have with your non-shipper status. It's analgous to Jaters' and skaters' infatuation with Jate/skate respectively.
You're shippers too, just in denial (not the river).
I've seen #4 and I have to say, IMHO, that the "shippers will freak" stuff is complete hyperbole. The time for shippers to freak was the mini-pod of season 3, not 4.04. Kate made her choice, we know she has feelings for Jack, we know she isn't pleased with jack.
Thanks, doc! Sounds like the voice of reason.
Kate made her choice? Then the triangle is over!! Oh, thank God! We can finally sleep at night. Someone get that memo to tptb so they'll quit throwing it in our face that it will live on.
wow ! thank you to come back here docarzt and for all things you shared with us before too, i mean interview, spoilers, you're very great like all andy's sources here :)
i'm happy this episode isn't just about shipper stuff, i mean even if i'm shipper, i expect more about this episode, especially i want to see evie performance ! god the trial could be awesome for her characther !
thank again to bring it ! :) i didn't understand why shipper episode could be great for non shipper lol now i'm happy it's not just about it :)
I think it's quite obvious that Jack is Kate's second choice. Damn, I don't give a crap about the triangle but even I can see that. Noone held a gun to her head and forced her to have sex with Sawyer. She, however, tried to shield him when that one Other (what was his name, Pickett?) tried to shoot him. When Locke pointed a gun at Jack, she slowly stepped out of the way. It can't get more obvious than that.
since i wasnt really expecting a sex scene in episode 4 i'm not surprised to hear that 404 doesnt like 306! but why would ppl think it has to be a sex scene to make it a shipper legend?
i was expecting a romantic and heartbreaking scene not something like the cage scene in I do...
@yas: i guess this was docartz's own opinion not the facts...
noone is expecting for the triangle to be over in 4 episodes while TPTB says its gonna last for a long time...
docarzt, thanks for your input. I'll take it at face value and won't make any assumptions based on what you've said, and I sure appreciate you taking the time to comment!
Maybe Jack will propose to Kate but she will say "no". I don't know why but this would be hilarious.
and this will make skaters unhappy...yeah that sounds possible :)
Aww thanky you docartz.So it seems Skate is far from over!!!!!!
here we go AGAIN.Dark..just a suggestion,you should remove the comment function from the shipper entries.it'd be a lot better.
WHATEVER,i that even a spoiler?nope.its a comment.Kate made her choice?lol. i guess its a way to say that J&K wont screw in a cage in 4.4! which is beyond awesome!
to me the comment just shows even more that something is gonna happen between J&K (theres NO mention of K&S) and THATS what i'm excited about ;)
aw,silly girl! Didn't you know that Kate made a final, emotional and definitive choice way back in IDo. After that the triangle was killed, yes KILLED. It no longer exists. She made it clear to Jack that she is only interested in him as a brother not romantically. After that Jack moved on and Kate embarked on an honest and beautiful love story with Sawyer, and the triangle just disappeared from pages of Lost. Unless of course you are talking about the Smokey/Jacob/Vincent triangle. But the J/K/S one is totally over because Kate made her choice. You are just a delusional hopeless bubblehead.
Thanks, DocArzt!
I totally agree w/ everyone who said that this source is a bit of a hypocrite. If you don't want people to discuss spoilers, then complain to the spoiler leakers, not the fans.
And what annoys me the most is that usually, when ppl start saying "you can't be spoiled about this", "you have to see it to believe it", it usually turns out to be, as DocArtz put it, complete hyperbole. Remember when Insiderscoop refused to describe the Ben/Locke/Jacob scene in TMBTC with that same argument, that you had to see it for yourself otherwise you'd be robbed of a mind-boggling scene and stuff? At least in my lousy opinion, that was just an ok scene, above average, but nothing to make me jump on my chair and nothing that I'd hate to have been spoiled about beforehand. This is Lost, everybody knows that freaky stuff will happen every now and then.
Sometimes it looks like those insiders are just trying to show off, with a "I have seen the entire 4th season and you haven't"-kind of attitude. That's really uncalled for. If you can share what you know, then share it. If you can't, stop telling everyone how much you know but can't talk about it without the risk of being kidnapped and brain-washed by the men in black or something.
I find the part about Kate's attitude and the type of person she's transformed into to be the most interesting piece of information. However, unless Kate suddenly turns into a kind, caring, selfless individual who puts others ahead of herself will we really be surprised? Kate has always been about Kate and she's never been a particularly good person so unless she's suddenly transformed into Susie Homemaker volunteering her services to Habitat for Humanity three days a week will we really be that amazed?
Watching Kate once again use Jack to further her own agenda in the FF is what I'm expecting to see. He will somehow help her beat the murder charges, help her get free and then she will be done with him, because that's what Kate does and I believe the Marshal warned Jack about that very thing. Hopefully she won't shoot him in the knee or anything when she's done with him, but I really woudn't be surprised if we see something closer to this, which keeps the character in character.
I'm not a Skater and I don't know what makes them happy or unhappy. If I were you, however, I would rather listen to DocArzt's comment and not some source who probably has no idea about the shipping world. If the rumours are true, I don't see how Skaters could be unhappy. Sawyer is stuck on the island and Jack & Kate still won't work out back in the real world. Even I can see that that's not bad for the fans of that ship.
I'm not stupid. I've shipped so many couples in my life already so that I can read plot devices.
Yes, us poor Jaters are just being dragged down a muddy road with nothing at the end of it. TPTB just like to drag us along like blind puppies and we go along when it is obvious Jate never even existed. I wish I were smart enough to ship a real couple.
"Stop begging for spoilers. Stop trying to spread the information around on the Internet. If you keep digging around one of the best episodes Lost has ever created will be ruined for you. I understand some people want that. But those posts usually happened the day before the episode airs. "
Well then if the source of the spoilers is plugged then there is no leak.
"One reason I like Andy (DarkUFO) and have used him to dish out spoilers for multiple seasons now is the way he has respect for the casual viewer and withholds some information. Stop giving him a bad time. Stop emailing him only about Sawyer/Kate/Jack "shipper" issues."
So this guy feeds Dark spoilers about the show, but doesn't want people to fish around for spoilers? Hypocrite.
Who is he to tell people what to like on the show? I personally don't care about the whole love triangle aspect of the show but many people do so why trivialize them? Especially since the only spoilers we've received thus far is about the whole love triangle aspect. Stop emailing Dark about spoilers that have been revealed? F off.
To be honest, I would be kind of happy if it turns out that Kate only uses Jack to get what she wants. That, at least, would mean that we get season 1 Kate back and I rather see that than the "weeping, torn between 2 dicks version" of the Kate character.
If Katie's speculation turns out to be right and Jack indeed falls for Kate's tricks, it's also further proof that he has learnt nothing from his experiences on the island. He still has his big hero complex and is still easy to manipulate if it gives him a chance to put the hero cape on. I guess that's another reason why Jack, in particular, has to go back to the island. He didn't get his redemption.
And Kate didn't get her redemption either.
Yes, us poor Jaters are just being dragged down a muddy road with nothing at the end of it. TPTB just like to drag us along like blind puppies and we go along when it is obvious Jate never even existed. I wish I were smart enough to ship a real couple. - yas
I didn't say that but if it turns out to be true, you guys wouldn't be the first ones to get dragged along with nothing to show for it and you surely wouldn't be the last. I've already seen those scenarios happening on other shows with other couples. It's cruel but it does happen from time to time. I didn't say that it will happen but TPTB have already lied a few times to their fans in the past 3 years about various story lines. I wouldn't put anything past them anymore.
If Katie's speculation turns out to be right and Jack indeed falls for Kate's tricks, it's also further proof that he has learnt nothing from his experiences on the island. He still has his big hero complex and is still easy to manipulate if it gives him a chance to put the hero cape on. I guess that's another reason why Jack, in particular, has to go back to the island. He didn't get his redemption.
If Lost has taught us anything in three seasons it is that any person can be manipulated, you just have to know which buttons to push. We've seen just about every character manipulted, some more than once. As for Jack, he knows Kate's game and has since Season 1, but he plays along anyway simply because he can't help himself. He's hopelessly in love with an evil woman (the only kind of women Jack seems to find appealing) and even though he knows what she's doing, he helps her anyway. It's got nothing to do with wanting to be a hero, it's about being human and wanting to believe in someone when common sense tells you otherwise.
Comments like yours are why I hate the shipper war. It seems that Jack and Sawyer take the brunt of the abuse from fans in either side of the issue when they are easily the victims in the whole mess. Kate's latest victims.
Wow this is a volatile (sp?) thread. I've read everything so far and I think I've caught up. I think this source is just lashing out because they prob got caught or burned. Wasn't Dark posting saying he knows his sources take risks in spilling? Maybe his source is getting in trouble. It just sounded too angry. But I did like the part about liking the whole show not just couples on it, lol.
I think that the him could very well be Lance Riddicks character as someone suggested. But what if the 4.4 ff isnt about jack getting conned by kate. What if Kate actually pursues Jack and gets turned down? Does anyone know for sure if 4.4's ff's are before or after the ff's in the season three finale? Cause I mean if Kate is hiding from a mysterious "him" and they arent suppossed to see each other, (this is why they meet in some dark area at the airport) couldnt that be before Kate and the oceanic six are famous and stuff and she goes on trial?
We're told to stop begging for spoilers? Brings to mind a scene written by TPTB's beloved Dickens:
Desperately hungry boys draw lots. Oliver Twist gets the short stick and steps forward: "Please, sir, I want some more."
Uproar ensues. The men who run the workhouse, and eat meals fit for kings, are outraged by Oliver's ingratitude and impertinence.
@ lostmio - LOL
Believe me Katie, I can't stand Kate and if I had a choice, I would love to see her die because she's a joke of a female lead IMO. It's just, I would rather see BTR-Kate who manipulates people than "Oh, Sawyer is left behind on the island so I'm just gonna sex it up with Jack because I can't be on my own for a few weeks" Kate. That's what it's all about for me. Her behaviour is cruel and evil but she will get the backlash on all the message boards I'll visit. That's gonna be entertaining.
I haven't read any spoilers, so this is pure speculation, but I'm sticking with my prediction that Kate ends up with a Freighter in the Flash Forward. And with good reason. The Freighter (Jeremy Davies? Jeff Fahey?) is interested in her child, conceived on the island and born off the island (Sun's would be the other -- could they have a boy and a girl? Adam and Eve?). Kate is interested in a stable life -- one that doesn't involve anything before the island, and much less anyone from the island.
What I don't know:
1. What to think of this letter, the source seems hypocritical but probably wrote it with good intentions.
2. Who Kate is going to end up with.
What I do know:
1. We are all tired from this long hiatus.
2. Dark is very smart. The triangle/quadrangle produces alot of passion, no matter who you ship or if you ship. These spoilers create more comments than anything else, resulting in lots of hits to Dark's site.
Thanks Dark for all your hard work to bring us a fabulous site!
lol!
Sometimes i wonder if people are watching the same show as i.
so we have 5 sources so far who claim that they all seen the episode! 4 of them are dark's sources and 1 is docartz who happened to post to this comment section few hours ago...
source 1- episode 4 - kate - had one of the best endings ive seen. sawyer and kate (skaters? is that right?) fans will not be happy
source2- "And the end is so fucking good oh my God!!! If your wife or girlfriend watches this show it will be her favorite episode. This one is one for the shipper legends!"
source 3- Andy the only thing I can tell you so far is that episode 4 features an amazing twist.
source 4- there are some very powerful scenes in 4-4 and to a lesser extent 4-3
docartz- I've seen #4 and I have to say, IMHO, that the "shippers will freak" stuff is complete hyperbole. The time for shippers to freak was the mini-pod of season 3, not 4.04. Kate made her choice, we know she has feelings for Jack, we know she isn't pleased with jack.
so source 1-2 and 3 says there will some great shipper moments in episode 4... one of them thinks skaters wont be happy with ths episode, one of them thinks its gonna be a shipper legend, the last one says its gonna be intense and emotional...
docartz obviously compared 404 scenes with 306 sex scene and for him its not as huge as the cage sex (and he also added his own opinions on the shipper subject which is only his own opinion)
just like the source who says this is gonna be a shipper legend moment...
also we had 2 rumous which confirmes that episode 4 will have some great emotional jate moments and some moments which can be called "bad" for skate... but the ending wont please both sides coz obviously kate will leave sawyer behind and she wont be together with jack in the future (which we all seen in the season finale)
so today one of dark's source give us a few more details about this shipper spoilers:
Yes things don't end well for Jack and Kate in the ff portion. But we knew they weren't well for the two of them as a couple or as individuals at the end of through the looking glass. (so this "it wont end good for jate" comment is something we already know from the finale...)
But what is critical about the ff is Kates attitude, who Kate has transformed into as a person, and the dialogue in these scenes.
from we got so far IMO jate will have this great shipper moment some will interpret this moment as "nothing like I do" while some ppl take it as "the legendary shipper moment"... and things wont go good for skate...
Luthien, exactly.
Some of the sources are providing spoilers and with those spoilers they are providing their OWN opinion.
Well the part about not ending well for Jate doesn't necessarily have to do with what we saw in the FF. That's your own assumption, luthien. It sounds like something specific happens in this episode that is bad for Jate also. The only people who said Skaters would be unhappy were the first spoiler source who misled everyone that the ending would be shipper-y and the guy who sent the meanspirited PM (who has not seen the episode).
I'd say DocArzt is the one person here we know and trust, who has seen the episode, someone who has never treated shippers like second class citizens and who has given pretty much the cleanest interpretation. It's not going to be all that big of a deal after all sounds like. The cool thing about this episode won't be anything about shipper legends or any kind of nonsense like that. I Do was shipper legend. This won't be like that.
I think the episode will feature some shippy moments, but it won't be anything monumental. Nothing will be resolved and the triangle will continue as usual, unfortunately for the viewers.
If Lost ends with either Jack and Kate, or Sawyer and Kate, walking off into the sunset together as a happy couple, I'll eat my shoes, live on a webcam (and before you ask, I'm all out of marzipan shoes).
It's just not going to happen, not in a month of Sundays, I'm calling it now.
=O! I don't believe anyone at this point, i'll just wait to see...
@ veronique: actually its not my own opinion its the source's opinion or whatever!
"Yes things don't end well for Jack and Kate in the ff portion. But we knew they weren't well for the two of them as a couple or as individuals at the end of through the looking glass."
see thats something we already knew! whatever happens between jate (which will be emotional, intense and even legendary for some ppl)wont end up good coz they will be separated! why? i dont know but i bet its not because kate is disgusted with jack :rolleyes:
and dark said his sources are %100reliable and they've all seen the episode! if you dont want to believe dark's sources and just want to trust what docartz said thats your choice!
but when we have 5 spoilers from 5 different sources and 2 rumours giving away info about the same episode, i rather go with the common informations that those sources gave us than just put my trust in only one source!
but its just me! :)
I Do was shipper legend.
I'm not sure what shipper legend is, but I would agree this episode was full of emotion on both sides of the issue. It showed both men making sacrifices on behalf of Kate and Kate clearly torn between them.
"Please, I'll do anything you want!"
"I can't leave without you!"
She's begging and pleading for Sawyer's life and they're going to force her to watch his execution. Then Jack interrupts, but they've still got a gun on Sawyer and Jack is telling her to go and she's refusing to go unless he comes too? Yeah Sawyer, I would've had the same "WTF?" look on my face too.
I would love to see both men tell her take a flying leap off the nearest cliff and who knows, maybe we will. Maybe we'll see Sawyer reject her on the island and Jack in the FF, now that would be must see tv IMO.
katieb, I totally agree with you. I'm not going to be shocked or amazed unless Kate all of a sudden realizes that it's not always about her, that she doesnt' have to be involved with EVERYFREAKINGTHING in the world and she does make a selfless act ala Charlie to help others out.
I'm so sick of seeing and hearing how great Kate is and how great Jack is and all that jazz, for what they've done but hey, I'm sorry, who was it that freaking GAVE UP HIS LIFE for the ones he loved? Oh yeah, Charlie. You know, the guy that was played by the guy who got sick of being a sideline character when the show was supposed to be an "ensemble" piece; not just a Core Four show.
But will we ever have an impact on the show from what Charlie did or anything like that? Hell no! All we get is Kate having sex with Sawyer and then getting jealous when Jack kisses Shedevil Juliet and Sawyer brooding as always while Jack plays hero. Could we please stick those three in one of the hatches, melt the metal doors shut and pipe in Muzak from Hell on a continuous loop?
J.J.....why oh why did you leave this show?!? Aside from some bits and pieces here and there this show has descended into the soap opera from, yes, HELL. And yet I'm still addicted......and why, oh why, didn't you put in a clause for TPTB still there that it couldn't descend into this?
Rant over, am ducking for cover.
Lost is about so much more than the triangle and I'm sure (or better I hope) that story line will be on the backburner in the final season of the show. They still have to answer over 50 misteries. There's no way that the final scene of this show is either J&K or S&K getting married and riding off into the sunset. This isn't a soap opera.
If it does end that way precious I will eat my head.
But will we ever have an impact on the show from what Charlie did or anything like that?
I think the impact of what Charlie did is going to felt from the get go. It is because of Charlie that Naomi was able to make that call and good or bad, it is because of Charlie that some of them are going to get to go home. The lack of spoilers concerning Claire and Aaron really bugs me though. Charlie made this huge sacrifice for them and they aren't going to get to go home?
Claire is a really dull character in fairness. I appreciate she hasn't been given much screen time but we can only judge characters on what we've seen rather than what they could be...
Precisely. When Claire is given meaty material and enough screentime, she's pretty interesting. Maternity Leave is still one of my favorite episodes.
luthien said...
i can understand that for nonshippers its tiring to read all shipper comments since you have no interest to read what shippers say but couples and their relationships are part of this show just like the four toed statue is! so it should be ok to talk about couples...
The big difference is that when people here discuss the four-toed statue, they don't act like the four-toed statue is REAL and exists in the real world. They debate it like it is a fictional part of a fictional TV show.
When someone has a hissy fit that one of the fake characters isn't sleeping with the other fake character and actually gets mad about it, it looks very silly.
you're right on something tho, we shouldnt be fighting with eachother since fighting wont change anything but when i read a comment like this:
"jack and kate have no chemistry...they're boring and ppl who like them are delusional... jack and kate will never get together! they are not a couple and never will be! deal with it"
i cant help but respond!
Then you need to get a life. It's just a TV show featuring actors portraying characters. Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox aren't really in love with each other, they're pretending. They come to work, act like people in the middle of a love triangle on a mysterious island, then they go home. Why, in fact, I bet they even hang out with Josh Holloway and have a beer occasionally.
I know I just revealed a huge spoiler; thank goodness this is the spoiler section.
Wow! a lot of sources... I'll stick to the one Dark posted.
Kate's attitude, transformed as a person? Did she became a nun and the "Him" is Brother Campbell?
Is she a rich chick and the "Him" is Widmore?
The paternity will be revealed? Is the baby blond, brown/brunette or bug eyed?
He might be lying???
Wait and see...
I Do was shipper legend.
The shipper legend episode will be the one Kate makes an ununbiguous choice and stick to it :)
I hope we have the occasion to discuss more about Charlie and Claire when season 4 starts...
Thanks for the spoiler, Dark. When spoilers like this start coming, we have the feeling the Première is next week :)
Then you need to get a life. It's just a TV show featuring actors portraying characters. Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox aren't really in love with each other, they're pretending. They come to work, act like people in the middle of a love triangle on a mysterious island, then they go home. Why, in fact, I bet they even hang out with Josh Holloway and have a beer occasionally.
I know I just revealed a huge spoiler; thank goodness this is the spoiler section.
You know...I love you guys and how smart, clever, and awesome you all think you are.
Whenever a heated shipper debate starts, people like you love to jump up and down and remind everyone how non-shippers like you are the only ones with real lives because you don’t ship couples.
Please tell me that if that four toed statue (it's just a CGI or modeled scene btw) was explained away as a trick of light, you wouldn’t be on the boards crying about how lame that plot devt turned out to be.
You’d need to get a life ASAP for complaining about something fictional!
Then you need to get a life
the worst line ever!
are we still supposed to hear this?
oh my...
The most important thing I've learned in my life which has nothing to do with my maternity, marriage, university, work, but only my age and my experience, is 'never assume that people know/do/are less than what you are even if they seem they do'.
I sometimes made this mistake and I was judging people from they way they spoke, what they wore, the books they read but I was in my teens and I guess I just needed to grow up.
If you apply this rule you'll start seeing people under a different prospective, believe me!
didn't the i do fb's show that no no matter how much she loved someone, she still wasn't going to end up with them? that's what i got from, at least
i'm part of the 'lets move past it' group...
@matt..
matt said
And wtfsignmeup - the source can get twitchy if he/she/it wants to. We probably would have gotten more if the shippers hadn't been so greedy, or loose-lipped, or immature, or just downright insane/crazy.
What i wrote was
The source really shouldnt complain about shippers getting a little twitchy after comments like these
kate - had one of the best endings ive seen. sawyer and kate (skaters? is that right?) fans will not be happy!Info after the >>>>> you cannot post yet until i give you the goahead"
Source 2 on Episode 4
"And the end is so fucking good oh my God!!! If your wife or girlfriend watches this show it will be her favorite episode. This one is one for the shipper legends!"
Sorry but you got us speculatin Dark :-)
No need to be so self righteous.I think I was making a fair point.
Just finished reading all the posts. There were so many things said, I lost track. But this from katieb20022001 was near the end and I loved it:
She's begging and pleading for Sawyer's life and they're going to force her to watch his execution. Then Jack interrupts, but they've still got a gun on Sawyer and Jack is telling her to go and she's refusing to go unless he comes too? Yeah Sawyer, I would've had the same "WTF?" look on my face too.
I would love to see both men tell her take a flying leap off the nearest cliff and who knows, maybe we will. Maybe we'll see Sawyer reject her on the island and Jack in the FF, now that would be must see tv IMO.
This is one time you really hit the nail on the head.
Y'know, whenever I choose to endure Jack/Kate/Sawyer debates, I always remember a Josh Holloway interview I once saw where the interviewer's repetoire consisted entirely of variations on the question 'Who is Kate going to choose?'
Finally, Josh said 'Why does she get to choose? What if I don't want her? What if I'm busy?!'
Apart from the fact Josh seemed to get into character to answer the question/s...I particularly enjoyed the slight hint of annoyance in his tone.
That's right people, even Josh Holloway is sick to death of this tired debate.
I agree with the source - shipping isn't the only aspect of Lost. I hardly think you could find a single Lost fan who would be of this opinion. But the relationship aspect is important to some people (how annoyed would you be if some people completely dismissed the Others cause they were "boring"? Well the writers wrote the relationships too). All Lost fans (and they are awesome by definition, cause they are Lost fans and Lost is awesome) have different characters and aspects of the show that they enjoy the most, and how boring would it be if we all only cared about like, Mr. Eko? Especially now since he's dead and all.
Please don't try to invalidate aspects of the show you yourself don't particularly enjoy, just let everyone enjoy the show in their own way. Let's all respect each other. Shippers and non-shippers, Skaters and Jaters. Why not?
After all, 'tis the season.
Of love.
Oh snap. :P
I've seen #4 and I have to say, IMHO, that the "shippers will freak" stuff is complete hyperbole. The time for shippers to freak was the mini-pod of season 3, not 4.04. Kate made her choice, we know she has feelings for Jack, we know she isn't pleased with jack. - docarzt
Thank you, docarzt! I'd send you a bottle of fine single malt for that, if I knew where to send it. :)
Season 3 arcs are still in place. Check!
I have to say I find the original communiqué patronizing, even insulting, and I was disappointed to see it featured here. Considering the only things remotely spoilerish that had surfaced about episode 4 were 1)opinion only - NO facts, 2) from totally unknown sources, and 3) limited entirely to ships, I don't appreciate being reprimanded for discussing them or wishing to know more.
I love the whole show, including all the mysteries, but it's character development and relationships that I happen to enjoy discussing the most, and I refuse to consider MY love for the show inferior to anyone else's. I don't go around dissing those fans who choose to spend literally hundreds of hours on things like TLE, ARG, blast door maps, or umpteen theories involving time loops and EM energy. If that's where their fun is, I'm happy for them. Bottom line, we all love the same show.
One of the best things about Lost, one of the things that makes it unique, IMO, is that it has pulled in a huge and varied fanbase - fans of Sci-fi, action/adventure, and character-driven drama have all found things to love passionately about this show. In that regard, it's been a very inclusive show. I think it's a shame that the author of the communiqé fails to GET that about a show he/she purports to love so much better than the shippers he looks down on. JMO, of course.
Well, I'm not a shipper. I'd like to have Sawyer for myself. And um...recently, Jack is lookin' kinda hot...what's up with that??
Don't ask for spoilers from a spoiler site? That's like going to KFC and being told not to ask for chicken. WTF is the point?
And don't spread it on the internet? This is rich coming from someone who doles out said spoilers. Does that advice go for Dark as well?
Thank you Dark for all you do. YOU are always polite and respectful. That's the one thing I agree with - you do have respect for the "casual viewer" and that is why you created a spoiler section. I'm sorry you got bombarded, and I'm definitely NOT saying that is okay, but being scolded about wanting spoilers from a spoiler site? "Stop begging for spoilers"? And caring about the relationships? That is just insulting.
And for those of you bagging on shippers, I'm not "just" a shipper, I'm also a huge fan of the philosophy behind the show (even more than the mystery), and it should be evident that being a fan of one aspect doesn't preclude being a fan of any other.
- - - - - - - - - -
Matt - "Again, its called being mature. . . .why do "shippers" feel the need to "defend" their opinions? I feel the need to express my opinions, but I certainly don't feel like I need to "defend" them. If someone doesn't like my opinion, or doesn't think I'm right, I can state my differences and move on. I don't have to defend them."
Are you joking? People defend their theories about the Island and it's mysteries in every thread I've seen, some adamantly.
They state their opinion, someone questions it, they state their reasons. Debate ensues. Sure some shippers go too far, but so do some of the theorists as well.
Why is it "romantic" relationships are rarely considered serious to the plot? Whenever someone comments on a romantic relationship, People sigh, "shippers" they think, and eyes collectively roll. Brotherly love, paternal love, love for your friends are always acceptable storylines, but the minute romance comes into it, people scream soap opera? Why? Love is the most important thing there is, and the most compelling - not just for family or friends, but for lovers as well. Remember what Penny told Desmond? "All we really need to survive is one person who truly loves us.". Wars have been fought in the name of love. It can save a person or ruin them completely. So it is more than an appropriate subject for a show like LOST - one that is mainly about the characters, with a beautifully complex mystery as its setting, the "icing on the cake":
Carlton: Well, that’s good, I mean, I think at its core that’s what it is. I mean we get asked a lot more questions about the mythology but at the core we’re really making a character show and the mythology is the icing on the cake. But it’s obviously the thing that captivates and engages people and leads to the sort of Thursday morning water cooler conversations. But if it was just about that, then we’d probably have a much smaller audience.
Damon: Yeah, I mean we’re really doing two shows in one. The first show is about these people on this island and what they’re doing there, and the second show is who they were before they came to this island. And obviously it’s the latter that gives the show its real character drive.
Or consider JJ's advice to Damon:
Or, put another way: Lindelof: "When J.J. [Abrams] and I were first designing the show, he specifically said, 'Don't make the mistake of having the characters talk about Rambaldi all the f***ing time.'"
I'd say they think the relationships are pretty important, too.
katieb20022001 said:
"She's begging and pleading for Sawyer's life and they're going to force her to watch his execution. Then Jack interrupts, but they've still got a gun on Sawyer and Jack is telling her to go and she's refusing to go unless he comes too? Yeah Sawyer, I would've had the same "WTF?" look on my face too.
I would love to see both men tell her take a flying leap off the nearest cliff and who knows, maybe we will. Maybe we'll see Sawyer reject her on the island and Jack in the FF, now that would be must see tv IMO."
Just couldn't agree more. Send Kate alonge the Nikki and Paulo path. Please.
For me it is more than the triangle I'm not satisfied with at the moment. Season three just wasn't for me.
All major characters got more and more annoying in last season like:
- Jack's idea of getting off the island at all cost (OK this at least turned out to be an interesting storyline compared with the flashforward)
- Kate, like already said, has become a gigantic joke of a female lead character
- Sawyer annoys the hell out of me with his opinion: "I am the only one who suffers from the past. And nobody can understand me. So I have the right to be a a**hole"
- Ben fall from 'evil mastermind' to stupid "I am obsessed with pregnant women" fool in the last episodes of season three
- Season Three Locke is contradicting himself more and more
- and so on
The only character I'm satisfied with right now is Sayid. Hope he gets more screentime next season.
For me the first eight episodes of seasons four are gonna seal the fate of this show.
They already lost me as an obsessed viewer at the end of the mini-arc (and this stupid triangle was only one little nail in the coffin), but I gave the show a last chance to recover. Hopefully they will use this chance. It would be a really good sign if they would end the triangle in the beginnig of season four.
seriously ya'll shippers are an problem...grow the hell up!
i would really loved to respond to 3d's "get a life" comment or rob219's "ya'll shippers are a problem grow the hell up" comment but meresahnke said it all! great post and ITA with every word you said!
and i have an advice for nonshippers, if the spoiler is about shipping stuff dont bother to read the comments since you very smart guys think they're meaningless and stuipid! go read theories about mysteries and only come to comment sections when its nonshipper spoilers...
Paterooni said...
Whenever a heated shipper debate starts, people like you love to jump up and down and remind everyone how non-shippers like you are the only ones with real lives because you don’t ship couples.
I must be behind the times, I didn't know that "ship" had morphed into a transitive verb.
Please tell me that if that four toed statue (it's just a CGI or modeled scene btw) was explained away as a trick of light, you wouldn’t be on the boards crying about how lame that plot devt turned out to be. You’d need to get a life ASAP for complaining about something fictional!
So now you're mad at me for something that you imagine I might do in the future, in the event that the LOST writers write something really stupid into the show that you just dreamed up?
The descent into madness continues.
Blogger TheLoneAssassin said...
Y'know, whenever I choose to endure Jack/Kate/Sawyer debates, I always remember a Josh Holloway interview I once saw where the interviewer's repetoire consisted entirely of variations on the question 'Who is Kate going to choose?'
Finally, Josh said 'Why does she get to choose? What if I don't want her? What if I'm busy?!'
Apart from the fact Josh seemed to get into character to answer the question/s...I particularly enjoyed the slight hint of annoyance in his tone.
That's funny. It reminds me of the SNL sketch when William Shatner went to the Star Trek Convention and yelled at all the nerds. "It's just a TV show!" And then the convention director had to go on mic and say that he was portraying the Evil Kirk to prevent a riot.
Selina said...
Please don't try to invalidate aspects of the show you yourself don't particularly enjoy, just let everyone enjoy the show in their own way.
Who invalidated any part of the show? I think the romantic relationships are essential to the story and also very well-done.
I just think the reactions to them are hilarious. People tear each other's throats out over which fictional character gets to kiss or have sex with another fictional character, invent names for their different opposing groups, etc. It's like World of Warcraft for housewives.
In fact the only time they pause for a second and stop disemboweling each other online is when they band together to attack someone else who points out how silly it is.
meresahnke said...
Why is it "romantic" relationships are rarely considered serious to the plot? Whenever someone comments on a romantic relationship, People sigh, "shippers" they think, and eyes collectively roll.
That would be a valid point, if anyone here was slagging on the ACTUAL relationship storylines in the show.
But for the most part, they're not. The collective eye-roll you're experiencing is not directed at anything in the show itself. It is directed at the shallow and ridiculous legion of posts that swamps any LOST site whenever something relationship-oriented rears its head in the show.
Brotherly love, paternal love, love for your friends are always acceptable storylines, but the minute romance comes into it, people scream soap opera?
Did you notice they aren't screaming "soap opera" at the producers? Because the actual storylines in the show are well-written and well-acted. They are not soap-opera-like in the slightest. But they're discussed and fought over on the Internet as if they were soap-operas because many of the people flaming each other over them are simpleminded.
Why? Love is the most important thing there is, and the most compelling - not just for family or friends, but for lovers as well. Remember what Penny told Desmond? "All we really need to survive is one person who truly loves us.". Wars have been fought in the name of love. It can save a person or ruin them completely. So it is more than an appropriate subject for a show like LOST - one that is mainly about the characters, with a beautifully complex mystery as its setting, the "icing on the cake"...
That's well said. I agree 100%. Who are you arguing with? Where did anyone say that romantic relationships should not take place on LOST?
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with 3d to an extend. World of Warcraft for housewives! That's classic!
I also agree that Lost's romance stories themselves are not at all soap opera like or annoying. It's just when they get bogged down being discussed by people who think this show is about watching some kind of gloopy emo Party of Five junk. It's too bad that there can't be more intelligent discussion about it, and that shippers are now treated like open targets by geeks who are often just as ridiculous. But that's how it works online. Offline people seem to have a much more rational attitude towards all aspects of the show, but they just don't obsess as much and it doesn't become a part of their personal identity.
Even so, the arrogant attitude of this email was uncalled for and insulting. I can't even get my head around some person who feeds spoilers to a major spoiler site telling people not to spread it around on the Internet. That's like walking around naked and telling people not to stare at you.
3d has said it all. Well done sir!
People who visit and contribute to fan sites like this one are all really into the show, we are the 'lunatic fringe' of Lost viewers, as it were.
Shippers are simply the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe. I'd never previously come across the phenomenon and initially considered it completely deranged. I've now come to a similar conclusion to 3d... it's just a bizarre form of fantasist wish fulfillment, everyone needs to get their kicks somehow I guess.
I just wish it didn't infect every single comments thread on every single damn subject. As has been previously noted, there are plenty of shows out there that are far more suited to this sort of behavior, and indeed, concentrate on the elements that some of you seem to want the show to be entirely about.
Shippers aren't the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe. They're just the female fringe of the lunatic fringe, by and large, and as such are much more easily targeted. I've seen lunacy in the geek fringe that makes me glad most of those guys don't leave their basements.
"They're just the female fringe of the lunatic fringe"
I'm very glad it wasn't me that made such a crass and sweeping generalisation. Good luck with that one.
:D
Crass and sweeping? Who can argue that the vast majority of shippers are women? I know there are a few boys out there, but not many. It's a simple statement of the obvious. Nothing pejorative about it, though you seem to want to stir that up.
In light of recent comments, I'd amend my original comment from "lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe" to "members of the lunatic fringe with no sense of humour".
:P
"I just wish it didn't infect every single comments thread on every single damn subject. As has been previously noted, there are plenty of shows out there that are far more suited to this sort of behavior, and indeed, concentrate on the elements that some of you seem to want the show to be entirely about."
Maybe...stop...talking about it then?
Also, 3d, my comment wasn't addressed to you. Who invalidated any part of the show, you ask? How about people calling shippers (i.e. people caring about the romantic storylines) the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe..?
Anyway, someone already stated that hey, Lost is about the characters, so this is all redundant - once again we've all proved that we can never come to a sensible agreement but will continue to slam, be slammed, and create a bitter atmosphere in the fandom because we seem to have the urge to put people down to make ourselves seem more clever, and can't just let people be.
Oh lighten up for gawds sake! Crikey! :)
Veronique said...
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with 3d to an extend. World of Warcraft for housewives! That's classic!
I also agree that Lost's romance stories themselves are not at all soap opera like or annoying. It's just when they get bogged down being discussed by people who think this show is about watching some kind of gloopy emo Party of Five junk. It's too bad that there can't be more intelligent discussion about it, and that shippers are now treated like open targets by geeks who are often just as ridiculous. But that's how it works online. Offline people seem to have a much more rational attitude towards all aspects of the show, but they just don't obsess as much and it doesn't become a part of their personal identity.
I think that's just a function of the internet. People let their whole "id" hang out because it's anonymous. A few of the "offline people" you're talking about are probably the same "online" people obsessing about the show.
Even so, the arrogant attitude of this email was uncalled for and insulting. I can't even get my head around some person who feeds spoilers to a major spoiler site telling people not to spread it around on the Internet. That's like walking around naked and telling people not to stare at you.
I took a different meaning from it than you did. I think it's safe to say we can read between the lines and deduce that DarkUFO is pretty annoyed by stupid people e-mailing him and giving him BS about stupid shipper wars, when he is providing a free service on his own time. There's a difference in degrees of spoilers, and Dark took a lot of heat for having the entire plot of the Season 3 finale revealed on his site last year and spread across the Internet, even though he took pains to hide it on his own site to warn people.
And (because he is a class guy) he used this post by a third party to vent some of his frustrations about it without being crass or mean about it. It's his site -- if he doesn't agree, at least somewhat, with what the source posted, there's really no need to share it or relate it in a post here. Of course not everyone takes the hint, they just start screaming defensively.
Blogger Selina said...
Also, 3d, my comment wasn't addressed to you. Who invalidated any part of the show, you ask? How about people calling shippers (i.e. people caring about the romantic storylines) the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe..?
I think you're doing something a little intellectually dishonest here because "People who care about the romantic storylines" is not an accurate definition for "shipper". You're watering it down significantly to apply to everyone who watches LOST to make it seem waaaaaaaaaaaay more normal than it is. It would be like if I had said "furries" are just normal people who like animals.
You would be hard pressed to find one LOST viewer who doesn't care about the romantic storylines. I don't have a problem with the storylines or people being into them. But a "shipper" is someone who takes this rational POV to a lunatic fringe: feuding with other fans of other characters over who gets to sleep with who. Separating the show into different elements as if it is a sketch show (seen in this thread), and then directing people to only watch and comment on the "non-relationship" (?) parts of the show because their participation interferes with their obsessing over Lost like it is The Young and the Restless (seen in this thread).
Anyway, someone already stated that hey, Lost is about the characters, so this is all redundant - once again we've all proved that we can never come to a sensible agreement but will continue to slam, be slammed, and create a bitter atmosphere in the fandom because we seem to have the urge to put people down to make ourselves seem more clever, and can't just let people be.
Truly, I don't give a rat's ass about being more clever in an online forum. I just come here to read people's theories about LOST and occasionally discuss them, and I think it's funny when I come here and find I have crossed over into what resembles a Hello Kitty discussion group.
Blogger Veronique said...
Shippers aren't the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe. They're just the female fringe of the lunatic fringe, by and large, and as such are much more easily targeted. I've seen lunacy in the geek fringe that makes me glad most of those guys don't leave their basements.
Well, you got a legit LOL out of me. That's pretty funny.
The only thing I would object to is that this strain of lunatic fringe is more "easily targeted" because they are female. I have been on the Internet going on 15 years now and I have known a lot of very strong women who could kick ass in an Internet debate and dismantle anyone male or female intellectually in a matter of minutes. And if they were reading this site they would be laughing right alongside me at the shippers.
So it isn't a gender thing. I don't think it is that they are female, I think it is that they are dumb. And it seems that socially, for whatever reason, dumb women gravitate toward being "shippers" while dumb men gravitate toward -- other forms of dumb geekery.
I find it bizarre that those on the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe seek to label those of us who enjoy all aspects of the show... romance... adventure... psychotic mind-games played out by mass murdering dormouse-faced control freaks... etc etc... - usually as 'basement-dwelling geeks' who concentrate solely on the mythology. This couldn't be further from the truth.
You are of course quite right in what you say, 3d. It's fish in a barrel... it's too easy to amuse oneself... I'm not sure gender plays a part but I shall endeavor to show more self-restraint.
For the record, my house doesn't have a basement. :D
"You would be hard pressed to find one LOST viewer who doesn't care about the romantic storylines. I don't have a problem with the storylines or people being into them. But a "shipper" is someone who takes this rational POV to a lunatic fringe: feuding with other fans of other characters over who gets to sleep with who. Separating the show into different elements as if it is a sketch show (seen in this thread), and then directing people to only watch and comment on the "non-relationship" (?) parts of the show because their participation interferes with their obsessing over Lost like it is The Young and the Restless (seen in this thread)."
Very fair point! But I think we differ slightly in our definition of "shipper", because be careful you don't stereotype anyone who falls under this category as "lunatic" or desperate housewives (ahem)... I can't deny that there are people that obsess way too much over relationships, JUST as there are people who obsess way too much over Lost/TV shows/the Internet in general, NOT that that's a bad thing - in any of the cases, including shipping! I'm a shipper, and I'm sorry if I get defensive - I daresay most people would if they are constantly stereotyped and made fun of, and their opinions are for the most part written off as useless. And by people who watch the same show even! We're all on the same side... allegedly. I mean, it can't be right that to get any respect I have to say that I'm not a shipper... the fact that seeing a particular pairing together on the screen makes me happy, and I would be terribly disappointed if the writers went with another pairing as it would mean my speculations and feelings about which relationship is the one they've been leading up to all along were incorrect, doesn't make any difference to how I feel about the rest of the show. It's an aspect that I think about and take the time to discuss with other like minded people, because I think it's fun, and that's what it's all about :)
I'm excusing myself now though, oops. I didn't mean to do that, there is no point... I guess I'm just hoping I can keep my opinion and comment on relationship spoilers/developments without being slammed for caring, cause come on, why is shipping different and more laughable than any other aspect of the show??
And crikey, sorry for being offended, but you are offending me, it's kind of a natural reaction you know? :/
We are discussing a tv show here, it's fluff, a welcome distraction from work during the day.
Quite how you can take offense from some anonymous twonk on the internet is beyond me, but it's not personal, I don't single people out.
I tend to assume others enjoy the banter as much as I do, almost all of my posts end in a smiley - what I'm trying to say with that is don't take what I say too seriously.... apologies.
:(
3d said: So it isn't a gender thing. I don't think it is that they are female, I think it is that they are dumb. And it seems that socially, for whatever reason, dumb women gravitate toward being "shippers" while dumb men gravitate toward -- other forms of dumb geekery.
I can’t believe you are getting away with this one. Calling shippers dumb. Boy do you have guts. Either that or you really want to start a war of words. I really don’t see the need for insulting shippers, non-shippers, or well anyone really. Stooping to insults doesn’t really support your arguments.
"Quite how you can take offense from some anonymous twonk on the internet is beyond me, but it's not personal, I don't single people out."
lol. You're right, this is all pretty stupid :D
It's all just procrastination from doing actual work! Like, writing that essay due in Friday sigh. I guess it's just the whole like, I mean we do spend a lot of time on Lost (watching it, discussing it, not being able to stay away from the spoilers) because we care about it, and so it matters when people put down our opinions - any opinions - because we've spent a lot of time building them.
But yeah, I'm annoyed that I care :P I can have fun reading fangirl blabber as much as the next person, but there's a difference between being amused at reading something which to you means f-all, to invalidating the viewpoints of an entire category of the fandom. An entire category of real life people rather.
I knoooooow, I'm taking it too seriously again!! I've been trying to promote my ideas of like, world peace and international understanding or whatever on these forums for months, and it's so stupid! This isn't where wars need to be stopped, it's just a.......... *pulls a William Shatner and runs off*
I so should have taken Human Rights. Maybe I just have to get all my kumbayas out somewhere. Well lucky we've got the Internet!
Back to real life and revision :s
That's the spirit! *group hugs*
(I was actually a bit upset about upsetting someone... so I guess, ultimately, the joke's on the anonymous twonk :P )
We do all love Lost, and we are all loons, and long may that continue.
:)
I really don't care about Jate-Skate-Sack-Crack-Shippers-Whatever.
JUST GIVE ME MY SPOILERS!!
Please.
:)
wow so you guys are still debating about "how lunatic are the shippers..."
guys why are you wasting your time on poor shippers like us?
why dont you just let it go and dont read shippers comments?
dont you think that it would be a better solution than calling shippers snarky names and offending people here?
whats the purpose really?
P.S: i'm not talking about all the nonshippers but just the ones who claim they're sick of the shipper crap and still coming to the sections where shippers post...
i mean did you read the spoiler before clicking on this comment section? coz it was all about the triangle and shippers! so you should have known that mostly shippers would be posting here, right? since you guys are smart! so why are you coming here reading all the posts and then complaining about the shippers?
there are many other spoiler sections on dark where the topic is not couples or relationships...
I'm still baffled that people are arguing with 3D's points and not seeing what he was expressing. It's not that he has a problem with the relationships on the show, he seems to like them a great deal much like most Lost fans. He certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with debating the relationships in these forums. The point he is making, is that the so-called "shipper" community cannot seem to have a rationale debate about character relationships. It always turns into a vicious cage match of name calling because someone is a fan of Jack/Kate or someone else is a fan of Sawyer/Kate. Debate the subject in a civil manner, without the name calling, and people on here won't think of you as crazy lunatics.
Hehe crikey! :D
OK this is my reaction to this, I am starting to feel more and more UNSPOILED by this episode the more I read about it LMAO!! It's actually quite funny! To me anyways.
As for emailing Darkufo about more info, why bother really? He has his sources, he is giving what he CAN give, and he has said so anyways yet ppl keep trying, what gives?
However, this is the risk you run when you do provide spoilers/teasers about upcoming episodes, you give a finger (teaser) and ppl wants the entire HAND (entire episode) and sorry that is just how life is! Shame it had to go this far to post this email to make ppl stop asking but when you run a spoiler site you do also kinda put yourself out there. It's a fine line to walk and I am not envying you Darkufo. I appreciate what you do but I certainly wouldn't want to trade places lol
Infact having "inside info" scares the hell outta me, you always gotta guard your words, what you say, HOW you say it, to WHO you say it and so on. I have friends with info from other fandoms and it's not funny.
SO to me, regardless of WHAT happens in this episode and what happens on the show, for now I feel pretty unspoiled to be hoenst, and hints and teasers are just fun, they make ppl talk, the Lost fandom is buzzing and that is what this is for I think. To get ppl TALKING :D. Just don't kill off Sawyer I say and I can take just about anything, kill off Sawyer now and I will just...still watch just not go hunting for spoiler as I do now LOL.