Welcome to the Spoilers section
If you have a new spoiler that you would like to share then you can email to darkufo@ntlworld.com. Please try to include links/sources where possible.
Update: 1st Dec This has been confirm as a foiler. Sorry for the confusion Update: 30th Nov It's come to my attention that some details maybe incorrect. As a result I have move this to the rumours section for now until I can be sure how authentic the details are. Please add your comments there.
I've just received a VERY detailed set report from Kronos who has managed to type up his report from the filming he witnessed. This is very spoilerly so unless you want to know major plot points I suggest to don't read any further. I assume this is for Episode 5.03 or 5.04.
DO NOT POST OR DISCUSS THE INFO HERE IN ANY OTHER THREAD, ONLY THIS ONE. PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL TO OTHER LOST FANS WHO MAY NOT WANT TO KNOW.
Ok, so the episode is all about Desmond, Penny, and Ben. There are no flashbacks or flashforwards, and it is very linear like a normal television episode. Desmond and Penny have been flying under the radar for awhile and they having a kid. They move around every few months and in this episode they are in a city named Mati.
I'll try and keep this in order.
Here are the scenes and the general background for this episode.
Penny and Desmond are living a wonderful life. Desmond wants to have a kid, Penny is uncertain. She doesn't want to raise a kid and live a nomadic lifestyle going from town to town running from their past.
Penny learns she is pregnant. Doctor gives her warnings, Desmond's sperm showed abnormalities that she could not comprehend. Scenes were filmed at a local dentists office.
Ben is hot on their trail.
Desmond buys a gun from a street dealer.
Ben and Desmond play cat and mouse in several scenes. Desmond saves Penny. Ben is angry, and lost in the world.
Ben travels to North Africa.
Brace yourself for a big spoiler
There are a handful of Dharma stations located throughout the world. They are not just on the island.
One of the stations is located in the mountains somewhere in North Africa. Ben tracks Widmore's security chief to this station. Ben tortures the man for a very long time, the man finally reveals Penny's location which is Mati.
Ben finds Penny and Desmond in Mati. Ben knocks out a cook at a crappy oceanfront restaurant. Ben poisons Penny's food.
Ben sees that Penny is pregnant. He had no idea. Ben stops the waiter from delivering the food. His quest for vengeance is apparently over for now.
Penny and Desmond are docked at the Mati harbor. Penny is having extreme pain. Desmond rushes to a nearbye village to get a doctor.
Desmond and the Doctor rush back to the boat. Desmond sees Ben on his knees crying in an alley.
Desmond and the village doctor head inside the boat. Penny is in grave condition. The doctor is clueless as to why. Penny delivers the kid, and the doctor tells Desmond to take the boat to a near-bye coastal village.
We watched as the actor playing Desmond runs from the village and he's having some sort of crazy body spasms and it was hilarious to watch this actor do this over, and over, and over. Can't explain the whole body spasms part, you have any ideas?
I think I might have made a mistake about saying it's a linear episode. I think after the Ukoa pond scenes, something happens to Desmond and he starts bending time again or traveling back in time
so what happened to penny after she delivered the kid ?
Well, if Desmond starts time tripping again like Kronos thinks, I'm guessing, she dies. I wonder if it sticks, though, because if he can go back, he might keep her from having his child, which seems to be the problem here.
so what happened to penny after she delivered the kid ?
Well, if Desmond starts time tripping again like Kronos thinks, I'm guessing, she dies. I wonder if it sticks, though, because if he can go back, he might keep her from having his child, which seems to be the problem here. **** ah yes i read again, i was still in shock abuot the spoilers lol thanks anyway for the explanation *hug*
I had predicted last week or so that based on these spoilers that Penny was pregnant, she would die leaving Desmond to raise the child alone.
Andy, don't know how you get this stuff...absolutely amazing..but i'm gonna have to exercise a little self control and try to stop peaking. :) (yeah right lol)
I dont know if she is dead or not, but whats funny, is before I got to the part with Ben not killing her, I thought if he is gonna find out and not kill her lol.... The baby is, get ready for this...Smokey!!! yup, there baby is Smokey lol...
I dont know if she is dead or not, but whats funny, is before I got to the part with Ben not killing her, I thought if he is gonna find out and not kill her lol.... The baby is, get ready for this...Smokey!!! yup, there baby is Smokey lol...
A person who's been 'time-flung' by the Island needs to find their constant to survive. Do they need to keep that constant alive?
Is Penny in her third trimester when giving birth? Is the baby like Ben and Locke?
Pregnancy problems are caused by Island conception. Could the real cause be impregnation by Island tainted sperm?
Why was Ben trying to kill Penny? Was he going to convince Desmond that Widmore had committed the act (a la Sayid)?
** I've just had a thought! Literally while typing **
Is Desmond Ben's key to finding the Island?
... ... ...
Actually I'm not sure how that would work. Unless the Island moving in time affected what Desmond sees in his time jumps.
It's soooooo frustrating!
I'm beginning to think that T S Eliot's Burnt Norton may be relevant to the whole mystery, if only in spirit:
Time present and time past Are both perhaps present in time future, And time future contained in time past. If all time is eternally present All time is unredeemable.
You can read the full thing here: http://www.tristan.icom43.net/quartets/norton.html
This is...this is crazy. Insane. But I hope it's a boy, named Charlie. That's the first thing I thought of when it said that the baby apparently survives, but it's not looking so good for Penny.
i just can't find words................WOW!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!! it's greate isn't it?????i guess im a bad girl but i just can't resist being spoiled......
>> Ben cries because he has a really big psychological problem with women dying while pregnant and in childbirth, because his own mother died like that.
So, he followed Des and Penny after he tried to kill her? Why?
This seems like way too much info for one day's shoot. How long was this person on the set and how many days' shooting was involved? I've been on tons of sets for TV to films and I have never heard of this many different locations being done on one set and on one day's shoot. Can we trust this person? Did they actually see a script and not all of this actually filmed?
Another addition to the merry band of weaklings! Unfortunately I have zero willpower :) Wow! Can't believe we got something this detailed this early. Dark, is this usual?
Unfortunately the demise of Penny was always going to be a high possibility after the unexpected happy renuion in TNPLH. Poor Des, well at least he had a few years of happiness before it happened.
I agree with those who think Des' spasms are the result of him losing his constant. Looks like Penny could be the person from the deathwatch list :(
That Dharma station in the mountains sounds incredible. Further ties Widmore to Dharma and reveals that Des & Penny must have confided in Widmore and/or his goons?
^^^^^^^^ So would that mean that it's really two deaths; just Penny as the first?
Going with the theory that this one doesn't stick due to time travel, she either is the death on the list, but it's not a permanent one - or someone else dies.
^^^ I'm sorry, but I'ma dunce, right now. What do you mean by 'this one doesn't stick due to time travel'?
If Des can time travel, and the problem is that Penny can't carry his child, he has to convince her past self not to get back together with him, or something like that. Really, it's just a theory I have, mostly based on the above scenario being the absolute worst situation possible for all three characters involved (and four, if Penny dying should influence Des, because anything happening to him would likely influence Daniel)and on the casting call for two British teens for this episode a few weeks back - one of them a boy who is "very mature for his age." Which might just be a 30-something guy in his much younger body.
But really, it's just my interpretation of this, it could be something completely different.
Darkufo had a video on here showing Desmond racing onto a white boat and what looked like n Asian doctor (he was carring what seemed to be a doctor's black bag) running right behind him. It also showed Desmond either working up a sweat (maybe to look like he'd been running prior to filming the scene?) and on a wooden dock.
The future is SET. They said this in regards to the flash-forwards that we have already seen, but I'm guessing they also mean that Desmond can't go back in time and change huge chunks of what has already happened.
If this episode synopsis is true and Penny DID die (thus starting Desmond's flashes again)...then Penny DID die. There's no changing that.
I'll be irritated if Darlton go back on their word and now say "What we've seen? Yeah, that isn't set in stone and can be changed".
Desmond DID end up with Penny and ended up getting her pregnant. We have seen this, that cannot change.
Unless Darlton change their minds, and then the whole pseudoscience of Lost that has been built up will fall apart.
What CAN happen is that Desmond can change his potential future if he changes the past, though.
He can go back to when he knew Ben and tell him to meet him at a certain point in the future, thus making Ben Desmond's new constant.
Maybe he'll flash back to when he saw Ben in the alley, go back to him and say "Meet me in this alley in precisely X days at this time", rush to the alley again, meet Ben and be cured.
This is possible as he saw Ben both on and off the island.
That'd set up why Desmond would want to go back to the island: it isn't that he WANTS to, it's because he's stuck with Ben because Ben is his new constant?
The future is SET. They said this in regards to the flash-forwards that we have already seen, but I'm guessing they also mean that Desmond can't go back in time and change huge chunks of what has already happened.
But like you said, he can change his past, and that he already did. He took the bat in the face that originally would have hit the barman. He told his friend about the island and the hatch, which he couldn't have done before. He took the ring. He went to Daniel, which is something he hadn't done before. He persuaded Penny to wait for his call, which he also hadn't done before - and this is something we know because we saw their conversation at the stadium, which wouldn't have happened had their past always contained that phone call.
We've seen him change numerous times how Charlie died, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to change how Penny dies, as long as it grows organically out of his past.
Well, honestly, I like ALL the Des&Penny scenes, but... where is the bigger mysteries? Only Dharma Station off the island and Ben torturing one of Charles' man? I wanna know something else than Penny having baby, Des trying to save her. I know this is a drama series also, but - come on! I hated of the Jack and Kate stuff in season 4!
Are you sure about Desmond meeting Ben on the island? When Ben was locked up in the Swan, Desmond was sailing around the island. When Des came back, Ben was at the barracks. Unless I'm forgetting a scene with the two?
I don't doubt this is legitimate but I guess it's not complete. I think Desmond's sperm killing Penny is quite silly as an ending for their romance. I truly believe it.
And what is the point of Ben in that story if in the end he appears to do nothing?
He could change how Charlie potentially died, but when he did die, Desmond couldn't change that.
He COULD have stopped Penny from dying (if he foresaw it, which he didn't), but by the sounds of it (him suddenly spasming and probably 'flashing' - ie, without a constant anymore), she died while he was trying to find a doctor.
He cannot now change the fact that she is dead, much like he cannot change how Charlie is dead. Get it?
If the producers say "Okay, we're changing the rules we set - Desmond can now bring people back from the dead!"...imagine the uproar on fan boards. "If he can bring back Penny, why not bring back Charlie? Why not Eko? Why do they even need to go back to the island to do something to Locke when Desmond can go back to when he was alive, and change his future so he's now still alive as well?".
If he can resurrect Penny, it simply won't make sense. If Penny died, Penny is dead, and Desmond will need a new constant (judging by the spasming that only occurs when Desmond needs to find a constant, she's dead and she ain't coming back).
---
Hmm, true, Thirty-Fiver.
Which leads to my second point:
Ben needs a new constant. While probably not Ben (though I'd love the irony if Desmond suddenly needed the man who was trying to kill his soulmate), I'm betting that once Penny is gone, Desmond will use one of the Oceanic 6 as a constant, thrusting him back into the returning group.
The 'flash' that we will undoubtedly see (if he really starts spasming and needs to find a constant) will be he, flashing back to the island, telling someone to meet him off-island in the future.
Here's who it can be in this episode, if he needs to find a constant:
One of the Oceanic 6? Likely. Ben? As you say, I can't actually recall a time when they were together, but meh. LOCKE?! Maybe it's Desmond that starts the cogs of Locke wanting to get back to the main world? Wouldn't it be a crazy reveal if the penultimate scene was a flash to the hatch right at the start of Season 2, Desmond says "Meet me [here] on [this date].." and we see Locke standing there in the final scene in the present, waiting for him? That'd be before Locke dies (and then we'll see Desmond looking for another constant when Locke dies, which this time WOULD be a 6er).
So basically, we'll see the second chronological scene of Locke back in the real world of this episode and see him actually "Push the donkey wheel" or whatever in the final episode and see him catapulted through space/time to where he lands, followed by him quickly making the journey to go see Desmond, get it?
That's if Desmond makes Locke his constant through sheer desperation of being shunted through time to back in the hatch. He'd be like (in this episode):
Thinking: "I'll wait for Kate, she comes down in a second...fuck back in the present...back in the past...is she coming?" Shouts out: "LOCKE, this may make no sense, but on [this day, this time], be [here], it will save my life and one day you know you will need to."
Then when the island is at it's lowest ebb (the final episode), we'll see Locke realise that Desmond wasn't being stupid, and we'll see him go push the wheel, explaining why he was there in this episode, waiting for Desmond.
If anyone's interested....The only time Desmond and Ben have ever met so far, was briefly when they all gathered at the cockpit to decide who was gonna go with which group....Ben was tied up and being escorted by Danielle, and Desmond was prob greiving over Charlie, so they may not have had any contact....
(Interestingly enough, can anyone mention a scene where Locke and Sun actually talk to each other aside from the one where Sun loses her wedding ring? Cause I can't!!!)
Can someone make of someone his/her constant? Doesn't it depend on which times he is moving back and forth to?
The idea of Desmond losing his constant is the only meaningful thing I can save of what we know so far. The idea of a Penny (three eps after the reunion! with no previous screetime!) and a Desmond with a baby is cheesy, too melodramatic and huge cheating as far as actually dealing with the Des/Penny relationship goes.
I don't think that anyone else mentioned this (if they did, I apologize in advance) but here are my thoughts: Desmond and Penny aside...
Ben stops the waiter from giving Penny the poisoned food because he knows that it is pointless. He already knows that she is doomed to die in childbirth. He knows that all of the pregnant women on the Island died because of the sperm abnormalities of the men who had spent time on the Island. That's why Danielle and Claire lived--because the father of their babies had never been to the Island prior to their babies' conception.
So....doesn't this imply that Ben father might have spent time on the Island (perhaps as a young child, himself) prior to Ben's birth! Maybe there's a bigger reason why Ben feels entitled to the Island. Maybe he has a long family history there. Maybe during the purge, he only took back what he felt was rightfully his in the first place.
Okay, I just read Dogma's last post about Jin and Sun which blows my theory to bits. Darn, I can tell that I'm going to have a hard time letting go of that one.
^^^^^ To add to your theory... and the reason Sun did not die in labor (as Ji Yeon was conceived ON island) is because she has 'work to do'. She did have complications like the other mothers, but she was able to survive it. The Island's doing?
All Desmond has to do is flash back to when he told Penny not to change her number because he would call several years later...and then adds, "This is IMPORTANT!!! If I call as I say I will and you answer YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY GET NORPLANT"
SouthernBeauty: I think thats a great theory! :) *thumns up* and with regard to jin and sun, jin was only on the island for a few months, des was on the island was years. maybe you have to be theire for quite a while before the sperm becomes contaminated?
then again, could just be because of the electromatnetic problems he already has...
"He could change how Charlie potentially died, but when he did die, Desmond couldn't change that."
Someones future is someone elses past.
Changing the past, changing the future, it's all replacing the timeline with a new one, which means killing everyone that ever existed and create new versions of them.
Which Desmnd has already done(that bastard! lol), unless there is sme big twist coming that he didn't live through it twice, he just had premonitions.
I love all the theories that are being bandied about but have to admit,I'm kind of stumped. Why, after reading the spoiler, is everyone assuming that Penny dies?? Is it bc of the words "grave condition?" I don't think that means that she is actually dead. We all know someone will die this season but I think Penny would be too much of an obvious choice for Darlton. Des could be having spasms bc Ben poisons him instead of Penny since he can't hurt a pregnant woman. This would also make it worse for Charles to see his daughter miserable the rest of her life without the love of her life. It might make it worse on Charles then if his daughter were dead and gone. There are also a number of reasons why Ben would be crying in the alley. He might have just rec'd news that things aren't going the way he planned with the O6 and believes he will never return to the island. @Renee G: I believe the city Des & Penny are in is Mati and not Meti. Mati is a small city in Greece and this may be where we start getting some info on the 4-toed statue. Placing them in Greece might also be a tie-in with the Greek mythology groups that we have been placed in DWY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mati All just food for thought..........
gosh i'm kicking myself for having read this :( And I'm so sad to think Penny could die. Screw Mrs. Hawking, Penny & Des should grow old together! Poor Des deserves more freaking happiness :( And Penny doesn't deserve this either, just like Alex and Rousseau and Karl didn't deserve to be killed. There were enough casualties in season 4. I don't want anyone else to die!! At least this ep with Penny's (possible) death also has more info about Dharma. If any more ppl i like have to die, then I want some freaking answers to make me feel better, you know?
Ms. Hawking told Des the only thing of any Importance he was going to do In his life was push that button. I believe her. Having a baby and raising It, Is a pretty Important job, a lot more Important then pushing a button. My guess, Is when Des goes to the village to get the doctor, Ben goes on board to talk to Penny, and realizes what's wrong with her, and leaves, that's when Des finds him crying In the alley. I think that Penny and the baby will live, and Des will die. Des was not one of the original cast members, even though they added to his character, I think that if he mind travels, he will do something that gets him killed, TPTB may fudge a little on Hawking's prediction and let It be heroic like Charlie.
Thanks Kronos for sharing this with us, desperate fans on hiatus :) Darkufo, you are a boss :D
Ben cries because he has a really big psychological problem with women dying while pregnant and in childbirth, because his own mother died like that. Good observation big wee!
Andrew Sparkes said: "So basically, we'll see the second chronological scene of Locke back in the real world of this episode and see him actually "Push the donkey wheel" or whatever in the final episode and see him catapulted through space/time to where he lands, followed by him quickly making the journey to go see Desmond, get it? That's if Desmond makes Locke his constant through sheer desperation of being shunted through time to back in the hatch."
That would be a great scene, but in order to make it interesting storywise, Locke should need a constant at some point as well... I don't think he would leave the Island simply to save Desmond. Considering he was at the hatch when it imploded, he may need one (constant) when he "lands" outside the Island. That is, if pushing the wheel has the same implications as leaving the Island out of the bearings. And out of all people that could be Locke's constant (Ben, Jack), it would be Desmond because he consciousness (???) travelled back and told Locke. This is probably BS, but it's fun to speculate :D
@observer I was going to post a lot of worrisome thoughts to that effect, but I can't stand thinking about Des getting killed off. The Constant frightened me enough in that respect. If Des was killed off that might mean a Minkowski effect would be next for Faraday, so yet another interesting character would have to die :( If Des really does die I'd want a heck of a lot more answers than abnormal sperm and "dharma stations throughout the world".
Anyway, this spoiler post is an great reveal, at least it means scenes with Des & Ben together. Whatever happens, it'll be awesome with HIC and ME together.
Well, considering that the source who gave Dark the list for the death happening in the first five episodes and Kronos are different people, I'm pretty sure Desmond isn't going to get killed off. If that's any consolation.
That's exactly what I meant. Sorry for not making myself clearer. I didn't mean Locke did it out of sheer kindness.
I mean Desmond goes back and tells Locke, "Come meet me [here], [when], one day you know you will need to.", kinda. Maybe not "Save my life", but it was to hide the fact from the audience itself until the finale, when we learn not only will it save Desmond's life, but it will save Locke's as well...for the time being.
So we see a scene from early 2005(/wherever the island ended up - 70s?) when Locke pushes the wheel to get off the island and goes to meet Desmond (in 2007 sometime as I don't think he'll spend long in this world before ending up in the coffin), connecting the finale to this episode.
And then as the very last scene, we see Locke lose his life through whatever means (after being shown him alive in the real world every few episodes from this episode, so from now until the finale, we see him both on and off-island, which is where the "whole new way of looking at time" will come into play) - which will be a huge reveal...is it Widmore? Ben to make Locke his new Jacob? I believe we won't see Locke arrive on the island until a scene earlier in the episode set in 2008/2009, and it won't be until the Season 6 that we see him fully 'resurrected' (or whatever).
I believe that we'll see Penny die in this episode, though, making Desmond set this whole idea about "actually getting back to the world without dying" in Locke, and then him ending up realizing that the only way to save the island is to leave it and find the Oceanic 6 as well as Desmond to make sure they stay alive also.
I don´t think Penny will die,perhaps she´ll just get sick and i think that´s Ben´s plan ,because he knows that if he kills Penny,Desmond won´t get back(probably end up killing Ben),but propose him to return to the island with Penny in order to save her.Ben needs Penny too if he wants his revenge.That´s what happened with Sayid as well...he used the death of Sayid´s wife to use him.
Well, if she ends up dying and Desmond needs a constant there's always jack right? It would give that scene at the stadium a lot more relevance although I still always wonder what "lift her up" means. Sonya Walger's character in Terminator just died this past week, I couldn't stop thinking of Lost and Penny lol at least that will sorta prepare me for this. Who knows though, maybe she's not dead.
They were connected to a virtual reality: the island (they are in a clinical death but frozen)and now (after a sistem failure)they are trying to live their own past lives mixed with virtual characters. So...if they remain out of the "island" they could die.They may become insane and die (Desmond is becoming insane after the hatch implosion, he is going from his own past life to the virtual one constantly . Maybe Desmond die at this episode.
In fact, before the aistem failure all of them sometimes were dreaming their own lives(flashbacks) but that was ordinary and not dangerous. DHARMA is just the name of the company which created the project: "Life after death"...This is my theory :)
andrew sparkes said: And then as the very last scene, we see Locke lose his life through whatever means (after being shown him alive in the real world every few episodes from this episode, so from now until the finale, we see him both on and off-island, which is where the "whole new way of looking at time" will come into play) - which will be a huge reveal...is it Widmore? Ben to make Locke his new Jacob?
Pushing this speculation a little bit further... If Locke needs a constant to survive, he might as well have flashes, or consciousness (??? I definetely need to learn this expression :) travel, that could explain a few things on his past on the island... Ok, taller ghost Walt told him he had work to do, but who told him the freighters were bad news? And how does he knew what Jack was supposed to do? Perhaps he even met Christian in one of these consciousness trips and told him to warm up his chair for his return to the cabin :D This hiatus is driving me insane LOL But Andy has a point there... Desmond knows Jack longer than Locke. He could be his constant as well.
Guys, with all the possible constant discussions, keep in mind that Desmond probably cares more about Penny surviving than himself not dying. I don't think finding a constant would be the first thing on his mind if she actually died.
And I have to say reading through again, I'd agree that we have no proof that she actually dies - his issues, whatever they are, could easily be because she's in crisis.
Sure, we can't say his spasms are due to his constant's death or if he needs another one immediatelly. That's the nice thing about this spoiler, Kronos didn't tell everything, so it leaves room for some (wild) speculation :D
There's a lot of talk about Sun conceiving, so it can't be Island tainted sperm?
But what if it's a mix and match type thing.
Sun was exposed to Island rays, so was Jin, they're both mutant freaks.
Des has mutant sperm due to Island rays, however Penny has never been to the island, so she is normal. Mutant sperm meets normal ovaries...not a pretty sight.
@reddkryten the difference between Jin's sperm and Desmond's is that Desmond experienced PROLONGED exposure to the electromagnetism by staying in the hatch for so long (and of course being still inside it when it imploded). Juliet said the island increases sperm count, she did not say it mutated it- or did you mean the effects of the island moving when u said "island rays"?
Yeah, I'm not sure this is a mix and match issue solely based on the fact that Des was on the island. I'm guessing that his DNA got remixed a bit (not that it would make much sense, biologically, but, eh.).
That's the nice thing about this spoiler, Kronos didn't tell everything, so it leaves room for some (wild) speculation :D
Exactly. Which is why I feel obligated to bring this next idea up, because nobody else has - it could just be a very long-type kind of vision Desmond has. Kind of like Jin's Panda flashforward actually being a flashback. I don't feel it's incredibly likely, but I wouldn't put it past them, y'know.
Just a thought about Ben's reaction here. It's been said that Ben didn't kill Penny because his mother died in childbirth, or because of how he saw women on the Island die.
But to then break down crying in an alley?
I think there's something more. I'm making a prediction:
At some point Ben left the Island with Annie, believing they could have a child safely off-Island, and whatever is happening to Penny happened to Annie too.
I've always suspected that Juliet lied to Sun about the ultrasound -- Jin is not the father. Juliet had her own reasons for lying, remember, at that time, she was still sort of working for Ben. Juliet was a doctor and would know the truth; Sun would not be able to read the sonogram for the right dates. So Sun and her baby survived because conception ocurred off-island, like Claire and Rousseau. OR.... only men exposed to the big radiation flash like the hatch implosion or "the incident" get toxic sperm, and Sun conceived before that happened.
Hitch: Take heart, Des Is not on the death list, that probably means something.
Andy: One heck of a story, and will written, but way to complicated, a lot of screen time. He's not one of the 06 or an On-islander, and that In Itself Is a lot of mouths to feed. Remember there's only 17 EP.
Island rays was just a random name I made up for the islands magical powers. Whatever it is that causes pregnant women to die, magic boxes to appear and light rays to diffuse in a strange way.
I still find it hard to believe that Desmond's mutant sperm were caused by the hatch. I mean, just imagine this conversation.
Des: Penny's dying.
Ben: I'm sorry to hear that Desmond.
Des: It's something to do with the island pregnancy thing, isn't it brother?
Ben: Actually no, you're off the Island, so it has no effect.
Des: Then what is it Brotha?
Ben: Well remember all that time you spent in the hatch?
Des: Three years.
Ben: Well it fried your sperm.
Des: So what your saying is, being in that hatch caused a totally different and unrelated pregnancy problem, which has the exactly the same symptoms.
Ben: Pretty much.
Des: Aye, and I thought moving an Island strained credibility.
So just for clarity and believability's sake, I think it needs to be connected to the island pregnancies. So I think this is just the result of a new combination of parents.
Off Island Mother + On Island Father + Off Island Conception = Death
Maybe Ben doesn't just want to kill Penny for revenge. Maybe he wants Desmond to lose his constant so he can find the island. Actually I don't even know, does Ben even want to find the island? I'm so confused, Lost does this to my brain...
There is just too much here to happen in one episode. Plus I can't see Ben torturing someone for a long time. That is not Ben's style. He would manipulate the person into torturing themselves.
Here's what I don't get (and I've only just found this now so that's why I might be out of the loop):
Say that Ben is about to kill Penny by poisoning her. Say that Des time travels when he realises he's about to kill Penny. Why does Ben not just go ahead and poison the non-pregnant Penny? Sounds like either way, it doesn't look good for her.
Say that Ben is about to kill Penny by poisoning her. Say that Des time travels when he realises he's about to kill Penny.
But Ben doesn't try to kill Penny, because he sees she's pregnant. Her difficulties are from being pregnant, because there is something wrong with Desmond's sperm. It's probably the same that happened to the women on the island, when they got pregnant there. It has nothing to do with Ben trying to poison her, because he manages to stop that in time.
What Desmond would need to achieve is stop her from getting pregnant, and as long as he can't really determine to which point he time travels, he probably won't be able to achieve that. Not to mention that from these spoilers it can't be determined if he knows that he's basically the problem, which makes the chances of him being able to change much even less likely.
Of course, if he did succeed, Ben wouldn't have any reason to spare Penny, you're right about that. It is kind of a no-win situation.
With all of that against her, it's almost more likely that she survives, although I'm not completely sure it'll be the case. We'll have to see I guess.
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I've just received a VERY detailed set report from Kronos who has managed to type up his report from the filming he witnessed. This is very spoilerly so unless you want to know major plot points I suggest to don't read any further. I assume this is for Episode 5.03 or 5.04.
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104 Comments:
temptation...
andy as i told you early lol i hate to love you ^^
So... Desmond's sperm is radioactive? *facepalm*
(Sorry, Spiderman reference.)
Ten bucks those Brit teens in this episode are Penny and Desmond after all.
Blimey oh blimey blimey.
BLIMEY!
That is crackers.
i got nothing. wow is all
ok i read...
so what happened to penny after she delivered the kid ?
gasp...I think i just pee'd a little
things to do this weekend:
1) find frozen donkey wheel & flash to winter 2009.
2) if #1 fails, wait patiently & check DarkUFO often.
3) change underwear.
:D
so what happened to penny after she delivered the kid ?
Well, if Desmond starts time tripping again like Kronos thinks, I'm guessing, she dies. I wonder if it sticks, though, because if he can go back, he might keep her from having his child, which seems to be the problem here.
It looks like Penny dies - Desmond loses his constant
so what happened to penny after she delivered the kid ?
Well, if Desmond starts time tripping again like Kronos thinks, I'm guessing, she dies. I wonder if it sticks, though, because if he can go back, he might keep her from having his child, which seems to be the problem here.
****
ah yes i read again, i was still in shock abuot the spoilers lol
thanks anyway for the explanation *hug*
And what happened to the child?
Maybe Penny did not die, but in the coma
I think if Penny died, Desmond would die either
Maybe That is why they have to go back to the Island
ben took it maybe, i told you in joking maybe he could...
but wow those spoilers
andy i'm still in shock lol
thanks anyway for the explanation *hug*
*hugs back*
Olena, I really don't think this is going to stick, and I don't think Ben takes the baby, he's obviously devastated.
yes you're right, he's devastated...alalala
awesome spoilers but i blame the hiatus i shouldn't have to read it lol
VERY nice mate!!
Poor Penneh...
I'm so pathetically weak it's ridiculous lol.
I had predicted last week or so that based on these spoilers that Penny was pregnant, she would die leaving Desmond to raise the child alone.
Andy, don't know how you get this stuff...absolutely amazing..but i'm gonna have to exercise a little self control and try to stop peaking. :) (yeah right lol)
Wow, cool spoilers!!
I liked Penny :( 'Lost' seems to have this tendency to kill of non main female characters....
I dont know if she is dead or not, but whats funny, is before I got to the part with Ben not killing her, I thought if he is gonna find out and not kill her lol.... The baby is, get ready for this...Smokey!!! yup, there baby is Smokey lol...
I dont know if she is dead or not, but whats funny, is before I got to the part with Ben not killing her, I thought if he is gonna find out and not kill her lol.... The baby is, get ready for this...Smokey!!! yup, there baby is Smokey lol...
So many questions!
A person who's been 'time-flung' by the Island needs to find their constant to survive. Do they need to keep that constant alive?
Is Penny in her third trimester when giving birth? Is the baby like Ben and Locke?
Pregnancy problems are caused by Island conception. Could the real cause be impregnation by Island tainted sperm?
Why was Ben trying to kill Penny? Was he going to convince Desmond that Widmore had committed the act (a la Sayid)?
** I've just had a thought! Literally while typing **
Is Desmond Ben's key to finding the Island?
... ... ...
Actually I'm not sure how that would work. Unless the Island moving in time affected what Desmond sees in his time jumps.
It's soooooo frustrating!
I'm beginning to think that T S Eliot's Burnt Norton may be relevant to the whole mystery, if only in spirit:
Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
You can read the full thing here:
http://www.tristan.icom43.net/quartets/norton.html
This is...this is crazy. Insane. But I hope it's a boy, named Charlie. That's the first thing I thought of when it said that the baby apparently survives, but it's not looking so good for Penny.
Daniel Denial, what do you mean "Why was Ben trying to kill Penny"
He told Widmore he would kill her to get revenge. Widmore's men killed Ben's daughter.
I thought Ben stopped the waiter from giving Penny the poisoned food? so why did she go into early labor or die?
I thought Ben stopped the waiter from giving Penny the poisoned food? so why did she go into early labor or die?
Because something's wrong with Desmond's sperm. I'm guessing taking a face-full of electromagnetic radiation might do that to you.
So basically, it's not Ben who kills Penny, it's Des.
i just can't find words................WOW!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!! it's greate isn't it?????i guess im a bad girl but i just can't resist being spoiled......
Maybe he stopped the wrong waiter. Perhaps he actually poisoned her and regrets it.
Stop. Why is this:
>> Desmond sees Ben on his knees crying in an alley.
Did Ben actually killed Penny? Why he cries?
Did Ben actually killed Penny? Why he cries?
Ben cries because he has a really big psychological problem with women dying while pregnant and in childbirth, because his own mother died like that.
>> Ben cries because he has a really big psychological problem with women dying while pregnant and in childbirth, because his own mother died like that.
So, he followed Des and Penny after he tried to kill her? Why?
This seems like way too much info for one day's shoot. How long was this person on the set and how many days' shooting was involved? I've been on tons of sets for TV to films and I have never heard of this many different locations being done on one set and on one day's shoot. Can we trust this person? Did they actually see a script and not all of this actually filmed?
"Ben vs. Desmond"
Why does this just scream AWESOME?!
Another addition to the merry band of weaklings! Unfortunately I have zero willpower :) Wow! Can't believe we got something this detailed this early. Dark, is this usual?
Unfortunately the demise of Penny was always going to be a high possibility after the unexpected happy renuion in TNPLH. Poor Des, well at least he had a few years of happiness before it happened.
So, he followed Des and Penny after he tried to kill her? Why?
Dramatic convenience. Also, they are still in the same town, so this is probably pretty close to the whole almost-poisoning incident.
Wow. Best hiatus ever! :)
I agree with those who think Des' spasms are the result of him losing his constant. Looks like Penny could be the person from the deathwatch list :(
That Dharma station in the mountains sounds incredible. Further ties Widmore to Dharma and reveals that Des & Penny must have confided in Widmore and/or his goons?
^^^^^^^^ So would that mean that it's really two deaths; just Penny as the first?
Holy Spoilers Batman!!
Yes! I am glad we are getting thiese big spoilers this early in the hiatus!
It doesn't look good for Penny though.........
Nothing there about Penny dying.
Just to make it clear that Pennys death is just a theory
all i gots to say is OMG and WTF....i'll come back and when have got my thoughts together and can compose a proper sentence...lol
>> two deaths; just Penny as the first?
Nope. I think Des will end up at menthal institution
Des connected to Dan. Did Oxford mention in connection with this ep? Why? Dan is on The Island
^^^^^^^^ So would that mean that it's really two deaths; just Penny as the first?
Going with the theory that this one doesn't stick due to time travel, she either is the death on the list, but it's not a permanent one - or someone else dies.
^^^ I'm sorry, but I'ma dunce, right now. What do you mean by 'this one doesn't stick due to time travel'?
^^^ I'm sorry, but I'ma dunce, right now. What do you mean by 'this one doesn't stick due to time travel'?
If Des can time travel, and the problem is that Penny can't carry his child, he has to convince her past self not to get back together with him, or something like that. Really, it's just a theory I have, mostly based on the above scenario being the absolute worst situation possible for all three characters involved (and four, if Penny dying should influence Des, because anything happening to him would likely influence Daniel)and on the casting call for two British teens for this episode a few weeks back - one of them a boy who is "very mature for his age." Which might just be a 30-something guy in his much younger body.
But really, it's just my interpretation of this, it could be something completely different.
Darkufo had a video on here showing Desmond racing onto a white boat and what looked like n Asian doctor (he was carring what seemed to be a doctor's black bag) running right behind him. It also showed Desmond either working up a sweat (maybe to look like he'd been running prior to filming the scene?) and on a wooden dock.
This spoiler 'sounds' very realistic.
More please!!! ;)
Remember what Darlton said?
The future is SET. They said this in regards to the flash-forwards that we have already seen, but I'm guessing they also mean that Desmond can't go back in time and change huge chunks of what has already happened.
If this episode synopsis is true and Penny DID die (thus starting Desmond's flashes again)...then Penny DID die. There's no changing that.
I'll be irritated if Darlton go back on their word and now say "What we've seen? Yeah, that isn't set in stone and can be changed".
Desmond DID end up with Penny and ended up getting her pregnant. We have seen this, that cannot change.
Unless Darlton change their minds, and then the whole pseudoscience of Lost that has been built up will fall apart.
What CAN happen is that Desmond can change his potential future if he changes the past, though.
He can go back to when he knew Ben and tell him to meet him at a certain point in the future, thus making Ben Desmond's new constant.
Maybe he'll flash back to when he saw Ben in the alley, go back to him and say "Meet me in this alley in precisely X days at this time", rush to the alley again, meet Ben and be cured.
This is possible as he saw Ben both on and off the island.
That'd set up why Desmond would want to go back to the island: it isn't that he WANTS to, it's because he's stuck with Ben because Ben is his new constant?
Remember what Darlton said?
The future is SET. They said this in regards to the flash-forwards that we have already seen, but I'm guessing they also mean that Desmond can't go back in time and change huge chunks of what has already happened.
But like you said, he can change his past, and that he already did. He took the bat in the face that originally would have hit the barman. He told his friend about the island and the hatch, which he couldn't have done before. He took the ring. He went to Daniel, which is something he hadn't done before. He persuaded Penny to wait for his call, which he also hadn't done before - and this is something we know because we saw their conversation at the stadium, which wouldn't have happened had their past always contained that phone call.
We've seen him change numerous times how Charlie died, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to change how Penny dies, as long as it grows organically out of his past.
Well, honestly, I like ALL the Des&Penny scenes, but... where is the bigger mysteries? Only Dharma Station off the island and Ben torturing one of Charles' man? I wanna know something else than Penny having baby, Des trying to save her. I know this is a drama series also, but - come on! I hated of the Jack and Kate stuff in season 4!
But if Penny's cure is the island, then Wow!
Andrew Sparkes,
Are you sure about Desmond meeting Ben on the island? When Ben was locked up in the Swan, Desmond was sailing around the island. When Des came back, Ben was at the barracks. Unless I'm forgetting a scene with the two?
I don't doubt this is legitimate but I guess it's not complete. I think Desmond's sperm killing Penny is quite silly as an ending for their romance. I truly believe it.
And what is the point of Ben in that story if in the end he appears to do nothing?
It seems that Desmond will have another fast paced frantic episode. Sounds good.
Okay okay, The Big Wee Hag:
He could change how Charlie potentially died, but when he did die, Desmond couldn't change that.
He COULD have stopped Penny from dying (if he foresaw it, which he didn't), but by the sounds of it (him suddenly spasming and probably 'flashing' - ie, without a constant anymore), she died while he was trying to find a doctor.
He cannot now change the fact that she is dead, much like he cannot change how Charlie is dead. Get it?
If the producers say "Okay, we're changing the rules we set - Desmond can now bring people back from the dead!"...imagine the uproar on fan boards. "If he can bring back Penny, why not bring back Charlie? Why not Eko? Why do they even need to go back to the island to do something to Locke when Desmond can go back to when he was alive, and change his future so he's now still alive as well?".
If he can resurrect Penny, it simply won't make sense. If Penny died, Penny is dead, and Desmond will need a new constant (judging by the spasming that only occurs when Desmond needs to find a constant, she's dead and she ain't coming back).
---
Hmm, true, Thirty-Fiver.
Which leads to my second point:
Ben needs a new constant. While probably not Ben (though I'd love the irony if Desmond suddenly needed the man who was trying to kill his soulmate), I'm betting that once Penny is gone, Desmond will use one of the Oceanic 6 as a constant, thrusting him back into the returning group.
The 'flash' that we will undoubtedly see (if he really starts spasming and needs to find a constant) will be he, flashing back to the island, telling someone to meet him off-island in the future.
Here's who it can be in this episode, if he needs to find a constant:
One of the Oceanic 6? Likely.
Ben? As you say, I can't actually recall a time when they were together, but meh.
LOCKE?! Maybe it's Desmond that starts the cogs of Locke wanting to get back to the main world? Wouldn't it be a crazy reveal if the penultimate scene was a flash to the hatch right at the start of Season 2, Desmond says "Meet me [here] on [this date].." and we see Locke standing there in the final scene in the present, waiting for him? That'd be before Locke dies (and then we'll see Desmond looking for another constant when Locke dies, which this time WOULD be a 6er).
Maybe?
Sorry, in the first full paragraph of the segment to Thirty-Fiver, it should read "Desmond needs a new constant".
So basically, we'll see the second chronological scene of Locke back in the real world of this episode and see him actually "Push the donkey wheel" or whatever in the final episode and see him catapulted through space/time to where he lands, followed by him quickly making the journey to go see Desmond, get it?
That's if Desmond makes Locke his constant through sheer desperation of being shunted through time to back in the hatch. He'd be like (in this episode):
Thinking: "I'll wait for Kate, she comes down in a second...fuck back in the present...back in the past...is she coming?"
Shouts out: "LOCKE, this may make no sense, but on [this day, this time], be [here], it will save my life and one day you know you will need to."
Then when the island is at it's lowest ebb (the final episode), we'll see Locke realise that Desmond wasn't being stupid, and we'll see him go push the wheel, explaining why he was there in this episode, waiting for Desmond.
I am guessing the spelling of the town is not Mati, but Meti. Which is an anagram for Time.
If anyone's interested....The only time Desmond and Ben have ever met so far, was briefly when they all gathered at the cockpit to decide who was gonna go with which group....Ben was tied up and being escorted by Danielle, and Desmond was prob greiving over Charlie, so they may not have had any contact....
(Interestingly enough, can anyone mention a scene where Locke and Sun actually talk to each other aside from the one where Sun loses her wedding ring? Cause I can't!!!)
Yeah I had to say this but,:
Jin convieved on island and Sun survived, so its not "Island tainted sperm"
It must ither
A: fate punishing Des for keeping Charlie alive so long....
or
B: The huge amount of electromagnitism from the swans failsafe did somthing to him.
Can someone make of someone his/her constant? Doesn't it depend on which times he is moving back and forth to?
The idea of Desmond losing his constant is the only meaningful thing I can save of what we know so far. The idea of a Penny (three eps after the reunion! with no previous screetime!) and a Desmond with a baby is cheesy, too melodramatic and huge cheating as far as actually dealing with the Des/Penny relationship goes.
Charlotte staples lewis = baby desmond
I don't think that anyone else mentioned this (if they did, I apologize in advance) but here are my thoughts: Desmond and Penny aside...
Ben stops the waiter from giving Penny the poisoned food because he knows that it is pointless. He already knows that she is doomed to die in childbirth. He knows that all of the pregnant women on the Island died because of the sperm abnormalities of the men who had spent time on the Island. That's why Danielle and Claire lived--because the father of their babies had never been to the Island prior to their babies' conception.
So....doesn't this imply that Ben father might have spent time on the Island (perhaps as a young child, himself) prior to Ben's birth! Maybe there's a bigger reason why Ben feels entitled to the Island. Maybe he has a long family history there. Maybe during the purge, he only took back what he felt was rightfully his in the first place.
Okay, I just read Dogma's last post about Jin and Sun which blows my theory to bits. Darn, I can tell that I'm going to have a hard time letting go of that one.
^^^^^ To add to your theory... and the reason Sun did not die in labor (as Ji Yeon was conceived ON island) is because she has 'work to do'. She did have complications like the other mothers, but she was able to survive it. The Island's doing?
All Desmond has to do is flash back to when he told Penny not to change her number because he would call several years later...and then adds, "This is IMPORTANT!!! If I call as I say I will and you answer YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY GET NORPLANT"
SouthernBeauty: I think thats a great theory! :) *thumns up* and with regard to jin and sun, jin was only on the island for a few months, des was on the island was years. maybe you have to be theire for quite a while before the sperm becomes contaminated?
then again, could just be because of the electromatnetic problems he already has...
still interesting to ponder though...
"He could change how Charlie potentially died, but when he did die, Desmond couldn't change that."
Someones future is someone elses past.
Changing the past, changing the future, it's all replacing the timeline with a new one, which means killing everyone that ever existed and create new versions of them.
Which Desmnd has already done(that bastard! lol), unless there is sme big twist coming that he didn't live through it twice, he just had premonitions.
Aaaahhh! Dark can you block ME from looking at the spoilers?!
Thanks, Thirty-five and Isabelle!
And thanks to Andy too! Reading this spoiler was almost as good as watching a new episode!
Pretty cool spoilers! *_* Thank you, Dark! :D
Southernbeauty: Great theory!
I'd assume, Penny has the baby, dies, Des has no constant, gets all the spasms and all, and something weird will probably happen.
I love all the theories that are being bandied about but have to admit,I'm kind of stumped. Why, after reading the spoiler, is everyone assuming that Penny dies?? Is it bc of the words "grave condition?" I don't think that means that she is actually dead. We all know someone will die this season but I think Penny would be too much of an obvious choice for Darlton.
Des could be having spasms bc Ben poisons him instead of Penny since he can't hurt a pregnant woman. This would also make it worse for Charles to see his daughter miserable the rest of her life without the love of her life. It might make it worse on Charles then if his daughter were dead and gone.
There are also a number of reasons why Ben would be crying in the alley. He might have just rec'd news that things aren't going the way he planned with the O6 and believes he will never return to the island.
@Renee G: I believe the city Des & Penny are in is Mati and not Meti. Mati is a small city in Greece and this may be where we start getting some info on the 4-toed statue. Placing them in Greece might also be a tie-in with the Greek mythology groups that we have been placed in DWY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mati
All just food for thought..........
gosh i'm kicking myself for having read this :( And I'm so sad to think Penny could die. Screw Mrs. Hawking, Penny & Des should grow old together!
Poor Des deserves more freaking happiness :( And Penny doesn't deserve this either, just like Alex and Rousseau and Karl didn't deserve to be killed. There were enough casualties in season 4. I don't want anyone else to die!!
At least this ep with Penny's (possible) death also has more info about Dharma. If any more ppl i like have to die, then I want some freaking answers to make me feel better, you know?
Ms. Hawking told Des the only thing of any Importance he was going to do In his life was push that button. I believe her. Having a baby and raising It, Is a pretty Important job, a lot more Important then pushing a button. My guess, Is when Des goes to the village to get the doctor, Ben goes on board to talk to Penny, and realizes what's wrong with her, and leaves, that's when Des finds him crying In the alley. I think that Penny and the baby will live, and Des will die. Des was not one of the original cast members, even though they added to his character, I think that if he mind travels, he will do something that gets him killed, TPTB may fudge a little on Hawking's prediction and let It be heroic like Charlie.
O_O
Thanks Kronos for sharing this with us, desperate fans on hiatus :)
Darkufo, you are a boss :D
Ben cries because he has a really big psychological problem with women dying while pregnant and in childbirth, because his own mother died like that.
Good observation big wee!
Andrew Sparkes said: "So basically, we'll see the second chronological scene of Locke back in the real world of this episode and see him actually "Push the donkey wheel" or whatever in the final episode and see him catapulted through space/time to where he lands, followed by him quickly making the journey to go see Desmond, get it?
That's if Desmond makes Locke his constant through sheer desperation of being shunted through time to back in the hatch."
That would be a great scene, but in order to make it interesting storywise, Locke should need a constant at some point as well...
I don't think he would leave the Island simply to save Desmond.
Considering he was at the hatch when it imploded, he may need one (constant) when he "lands" outside the Island.
That is, if pushing the wheel has the same implications as leaving the Island out of the bearings.
And out of all people that could be Locke's constant (Ben, Jack), it would be Desmond because he consciousness (???) travelled back and told Locke.
This is probably BS, but it's fun to speculate :D
@observer
I was going to post a lot of worrisome thoughts to that effect, but I can't stand thinking about Des getting killed off. The Constant frightened me enough in that respect. If Des was killed off that might mean a Minkowski effect would be next for Faraday, so yet another interesting character would have to die :(
If Des really does die I'd want a heck of a lot more answers than abnormal sperm and "dharma stations throughout the world".
Anyway, this spoiler post is an great reveal, at least it means scenes with Des & Ben together. Whatever happens, it'll be awesome with HIC and ME together.
Well, considering that the source who gave Dark the list for the death happening in the first five episodes and Kronos are different people, I'm pretty sure Desmond isn't going to get killed off. If that's any consolation.
MNE:
That's exactly what I meant. Sorry for not making myself clearer. I didn't mean Locke did it out of sheer kindness.
I mean Desmond goes back and tells Locke, "Come meet me [here], [when], one day you know you will need to.", kinda. Maybe not "Save my life", but it was to hide the fact from the audience itself until the finale, when we learn not only will it save Desmond's life, but it will save Locke's as well...for the time being.
So we see a scene from early 2005(/wherever the island ended up - 70s?) when Locke pushes the wheel to get off the island and goes to meet Desmond (in 2007 sometime as I don't think he'll spend long in this world before ending up in the coffin), connecting the finale to this episode.
And then as the very last scene, we see Locke lose his life through whatever means (after being shown him alive in the real world every few episodes from this episode, so from now until the finale, we see him both on and off-island, which is where the "whole new way of looking at time" will come into play) - which will be a huge reveal...is it Widmore? Ben to make Locke his new Jacob? I believe we won't see Locke arrive on the island until a scene earlier in the episode set in 2008/2009, and it won't be until the Season 6 that we see him fully 'resurrected' (or whatever).
I believe that we'll see Penny die in this episode, though, making Desmond set this whole idea about "actually getting back to the world without dying" in Locke, and then him ending up realizing that the only way to save the island is to leave it and find the Oceanic 6 as well as Desmond to make sure they stay alive also.
I don´t think Penny will die,perhaps she´ll just get sick and i think that´s Ben´s plan ,because he knows that if he kills Penny,Desmond won´t get back(probably end up killing Ben),but propose him to return to the island with Penny in order to save her.Ben needs Penny too if he wants his revenge.That´s what happened with Sayid as well...he used the death of Sayid´s wife to use him.
Well, if she ends up dying and Desmond needs a constant there's always jack right? It would give that scene at the stadium a lot more relevance although I still always wonder what "lift her up" means. Sonya Walger's character in Terminator just died this past week, I couldn't stop thinking of Lost and Penny lol at least that will sorta prepare me for this. Who knows though, maybe she's not dead.
They were connected to a virtual reality: the island (they are in a clinical death but frozen)and now (after a sistem failure)they are trying to live their own past lives mixed with virtual characters. So...if they remain out of the "island" they could die.They may become insane and die (Desmond is becoming insane after the hatch implosion, he is going from his own past life to the virtual one constantly . Maybe Desmond die at this episode.
In fact, before the aistem failure all of them sometimes were dreaming their own lives(flashbacks) but that was ordinary and not dangerous. DHARMA is just the name of the company which created the project: "Life after death"...This is my theory :)
I think after 4 seasons of the show, that type of theory, is really stupid. NO offense to you, sawyerrules.
I couldn't get to sleep last night ...
I was thinking about Desmond's radioactive sperm!!
^ LOL dr mum
What a waste... such a nice guy :)
andrew sparkes said: And then as the very last scene, we see Locke lose his life through whatever means (after being shown him alive in the real world every few episodes from this episode, so from now until the finale, we see him both on and off-island, which is where the "whole new way of looking at time" will come into play) - which will be a huge reveal...is it Widmore? Ben to make Locke his new Jacob?
Pushing this speculation a little bit further...
If Locke needs a constant to survive, he might as well have flashes, or consciousness (??? I definetely need to learn this expression :) travel, that could explain a few things on his past on the island... Ok, taller ghost Walt told him he had work to do, but who told him the freighters were bad news? And how does he knew what Jack was supposed to do? Perhaps he even met Christian in one of these consciousness trips and told him to warm up his chair for his return to the cabin :D
This hiatus is driving me insane LOL
But Andy has a point there... Desmond knows Jack longer than Locke. He could be his constant as well.
Guys, with all the possible constant discussions, keep in mind that Desmond probably cares more about Penny surviving than himself not dying. I don't think finding a constant would be the first thing on his mind if she actually died.
And I have to say reading through again, I'd agree that we have no proof that she actually dies - his issues, whatever they are, could easily be because she's in crisis.
Sure, we can't say his spasms are due to his constant's death or if he needs another one immediatelly. That's the nice thing about this spoiler, Kronos didn't tell everything, so it leaves room for some (wild) speculation :D
There's a lot of talk about Sun conceiving, so it can't be Island tainted sperm?
But what if it's a mix and match type thing.
Sun was exposed to Island rays, so was Jin, they're both mutant freaks.
Des has mutant sperm due to Island rays, however Penny has never been to the island, so she is normal. Mutant sperm meets normal ovaries...not a pretty sight.
@reddkryten
the difference between Jin's sperm and Desmond's is that Desmond experienced PROLONGED exposure to the electromagnetism by staying in the hatch for so long (and of course being still inside it when it imploded). Juliet said the island increases sperm count, she did not say it mutated it- or did you mean the effects of the island moving when u said "island rays"?
Yeah, I'm not sure this is a mix and match issue solely based on the fact that Des was on the island. I'm guessing that his DNA got remixed a bit (not that it would make much sense, biologically, but, eh.).
That's the nice thing about this spoiler, Kronos didn't tell everything, so it leaves room for some (wild) speculation :D
Exactly. Which is why I feel obligated to bring this next idea up, because nobody else has - it could just be a very long-type kind of vision Desmond has. Kind of like Jin's Panda flashforward actually being a flashback. I don't feel it's incredibly likely, but I wouldn't put it past them, y'know.
>> The Big Wee Hag
I had it on my mind too.
>> Olena:
And it happened while he almost drowned in the finale?
Just a thought about Ben's reaction here. It's been said that Ben didn't kill Penny because his mother died in childbirth, or because of how he saw women on the Island die.
But to then break down crying in an alley?
I think there's something more. I'm making a prediction:
At some point Ben left the Island with Annie, believing they could have a child safely off-Island, and whatever is happening to Penny happened to Annie too.
Does anyone else think that the idea of Ben poisoning Penny's food is a bit....
..shite?
It's Ben! I'm sure he could do better than that. :P
Does anyone else think that the idea of Ben poisoning Penny's food is a bit....
..shite?
It's Ben! I'm sure he could do better than that. :P
I'm pretty sure he's trying to just kill Penny and not Des, otherwise he would probably blow up the boat.
I've always suspected that Juliet lied to Sun about the ultrasound -- Jin is not the father. Juliet had her own reasons for lying, remember, at that time, she was still sort of working for Ben. Juliet was a doctor and would know the truth; Sun would not be able to read the sonogram for the right dates. So Sun and her baby survived because conception ocurred off-island, like Claire and Rousseau. OR.... only men exposed to the big radiation flash like the hatch implosion or "the incident" get toxic sperm, and Sun conceived before that happened.
hitchcockfan101=====andrew sparkes
Hitch: Take heart, Des Is not on the death list, that probably means something.
Andy: One heck of a story, and will written, but way to complicated, a lot of screen time. He's not one of the 06 or an On-islander, and that In Itself Is a lot of mouths to feed. Remember there's only 17 EP.
Hi.
Island rays was just a random name I made up for the islands magical powers. Whatever it is that causes pregnant women to die, magic boxes to appear and light rays to diffuse in a strange way.
I still find it hard to believe that Desmond's mutant sperm were caused by the hatch. I mean, just imagine this conversation.
Des: Penny's dying.
Ben: I'm sorry to hear that Desmond.
Des: It's something to do with the island pregnancy thing, isn't it brother?
Ben: Actually no, you're off the Island, so it has no effect.
Des: Then what is it Brotha?
Ben: Well remember all that time you spent in the hatch?
Des: Three years.
Ben: Well it fried your sperm.
Des: So what your saying is, being in that hatch caused a totally different and unrelated pregnancy problem, which has the exactly the same symptoms.
Ben: Pretty much.
Des: Aye, and I thought moving an Island strained credibility.
So just for clarity and believability's sake, I think it needs to be connected to the island pregnancies.
So I think this is just the result of a new combination of parents.
Off Island Mother + On Island Father + Off Island Conception = Death
One more thing about those spasms, just because they remind me of certain other scenes... could it just be that he's being tazered?
Maybe Ben doesn't just want to kill Penny for revenge. Maybe he wants Desmond to lose his constant so he can find the island. Actually I don't even know, does Ben even want to find the island? I'm so confused, Lost does this to my brain...
To be honest it sounds like a bunch of Fan-Fic crap to me..
There is just too much here to happen in one episode. Plus I can't see Ben torturing someone for a long time. That is not Ben's style. He would manipulate the person into torturing themselves.
Here's what I don't get (and I've only just found this now so that's why I might be out of the loop):
Say that Ben is about to kill Penny by poisoning her.
Say that Des time travels when he realises he's about to kill Penny.
Why does Ben not just go ahead and poison the non-pregnant Penny? Sounds like either way, it doesn't look good for her.
Having said that, I don't believe she dies.
Say that Ben is about to kill Penny by poisoning her.
Say that Des time travels when he realises he's about to kill Penny.
But Ben doesn't try to kill Penny, because he sees she's pregnant. Her difficulties are from being pregnant, because there is something wrong with Desmond's sperm. It's probably the same that happened to the women on the island, when they got pregnant there. It has nothing to do with Ben trying to poison her, because he manages to stop that in time.
What Desmond would need to achieve is stop her from getting pregnant, and as long as he can't really determine to which point he time travels, he probably won't be able to achieve that. Not to mention that from these spoilers it can't be determined if he knows that he's basically the problem, which makes the chances of him being able to change much even less likely.
Of course, if he did succeed, Ben wouldn't have any reason to spare Penny, you're right about that. It is kind of a no-win situation.
With all of that against her, it's almost more likely that she survives, although I'm not completely sure it'll be the case. We'll have to see I guess.